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Interview with “WowihaY,” the Man Who Narrated MH17 as it Happened

July 27, 2015

By Aric Toler

The anonymous Twitter user @WowihaY has long been documenting the conflict in eastern Ukraine, especially as it has affected his hometown of Torez. He came to a degree of notoriety on July 17, 2014, as he was one of the most influential Twitter users in chronicling and deciphering the downing of MH17. Along with documenting witness accounts of a Buk traveling through Torez hours before the plane’s downing, @WowihaY posted the now-infamous photograph of a smoke trail rising above fields south of Snizhne–the smoke contrails of the missile that brought down the passenger plane. The following is an English translation of an article by Olga Bespertova that appeared in Fakty.ua on July 25, 2015, with the first public interview of @WowihaY.

Olga Bespertova

Those who are not narrow-minded in relation to this story can assert with absolute certainty: the international investigation of the Malaysian Boeing catastrophe that was shot down on July 17, 2014 in the vicinity of Torez is going on the right track thanks to several residents of Donbass. These residents have provided experts with invaluable images and information that has played a key role in establishing the “authors” of the tragedy and exposing the lies of the Kremlin.

As of now, it is forbidden to make the names of the witnesses public. But one of them (we will call him Vladimir), in an exclusive interview to Fakty, has agreed to tell (but not revealing absolutely everything, of course) how, in a few hours after the disaster, all of the world news agencies had already reported on the involvement of the terrorists with the tragedy, and a folder with indisputable evidence was lying on the table of the head of the Ukrainian state by the next morning.

 

Vladimir, where were you on July 17, 2014?

In a Ukrainian city. Thing is, the pressure from the supporters of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic was harsh, because I’ve never hidden my views, therefore there was a real threat to end up dead in a basement. In June my family and I left our hometown Snizhne.

But both then and now I know about everything that happens back home. An advantage of our group is that there are local informants who are forging victory behind enemy lines.

There were bloody battles last summer in the vicinity of Savur-Mohyla. 1 I closely followed the course of these battles. The information was very contradictory, so I gathered data bit-by-bit from various sources. Since the situation at this stretch of the front changed almost every hour, I kept poring over every line, even in the comments of trifling news, in order to find important and useful information for Ukrainian soldiers. I had channels of communication established with them.

Planes had been flying over our region, and the terrorists dreaded them. Time and time again they tried to bring down the “birdies.” Sometimes they succeeded.

On July 17 at about noon, I “caught” a message that a hauler was pulling some sort of obscure covered-up equipment through Torez. At 12:05pm I received a text “Birdies, beware!” from a person who was well-versed in weaponry. He suggested that they were transporting a “Buk” anti-aircraft missile system.

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand why a large piece of equipment was riding about close to the hottest point of conflict at that time.

At 12:16pm I posted a message about this on Twitter2. People immediately reacted by writing that they had also seen the Buk and two vehicles escorting it3. They photographed the launcher that was being openly transported along the roads, but they were afraid to upload the photos online because it would have been very easy to figure out where the shots were taken from, and they would be severely punished for this.

So, from that moment on, I couldn’t tear myself away from my computer screen. Based on replies from Torez and Snizhne residents on social networks, I was able to establish the following route for the anti-aircraft system: Torez city center – Centralnyi poselok neighborhood – the area of the entrance into Snizhne – the entertainment complex “Varna,”4 where the Buk was taken down from the hauler.

Similarly, I established its route into Snizhne: Donetsk – Khartsyzk – Zuhres – Shakhtarsk.

At about 4:20 pm local social networks were full of reports about how a plane was shot down over Torez. Visitors of anti-Maidan sites (in particular the “Dispatches of Igor Ivanovich Strelkov,” that wrote about the victories of “Novorossiya” and the horrors of the “Kiev junta”) were in euphoria – a Ukrainian AN-26 had allegedly been shot down.

Right away I turned to the people who could most authentically and objectively figure out what had actually happened, and very carefully tried to find out whether the pilots were alive or not. I know a story from around the same period when, over a few weeks, residents of some village nursed a wounded Ukrainian pilot who had ejected out of his plane, and then transported him across the front lines. This, without any exaggeration, is a noble civil action.

Within ten minutes, a friend of mine sent a message: something had exploded to the north of Torez, in the vicinity of the “Progress” mine. At first there was a weak boom, and then it crashed with such force that windows shook in houses located a few kilometers away. He, having heard the sound, immediately jumped up to the balcony and then onto the roof of the high-rise building and took a few shots – gigantic clouds of black smoke dissolving into the sky. He sent me this photo.

No one really knew anything. At around 5:30pm, an active correspondence began on social networks. Everyone unanimously reasserted that a Ukrainian transport plane was shot down, carrying the bodies of soldiers. I started to comb through the Internet. At 5:50pm I received a text message that a civilian aircraft likely crashed and that “the area of the Hrabove poultry farm it was a ‘bloody mess’: corpses of women and children are strewn across the field.”5 Shock!

All the guys and I agreed not to reveal anything while it was still unverified and we were not sure that it was the truth. At 6:00 pm I read a message on the site “Information Resistance” that communication had been lost with the Malaysian flight MH17 – it had disappeared from radar screens while flying over that very territory.

At 6:18 pm I published this information on my Twitter account.

At 6:37 pm residents of the village of Hrabove sent photos from their phones, taken from the location of the tragedy, that made my hair stand on end: a corpse of a baby was lying on the field, a child about a year old.

At 6:45 pm I received a second photo – some kind of part from an aircraft. At 7:03 pm, a third – a mug with a photograph of three boys. Maybe a family that was flying out for vacation. Right then the villagers called: they wouldn’t be able to find anything else out, as a column of extremely angry DNR-ites [soldiers of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic] had arrived, and the onlookers were driven off the field.

I posted all three photos online.

 

Were you the first to publish the photos?

Yes. It was only after 10:00 pm that there were more photos of the location, where on that day the Buk was spotted, and the video of its movement in the direction of Snizhne.6

 

Now for the most important thing. How did you discover the rocket’s trail?

This is an unbelievable story. At 7:18pm I was in contact with my friend – the same one who took the photo from his balcony. Having looked at the image more closely, he noticed an important detail: on the opposite side from the Boeing crash site, there was a strange vertical column of grey-whitish smoke visible, very similar to the trails of a launched missile. The smoke was barely visible, so my friend didn’t even pay attention to it. But he saved the photo in the “RAW” file format, i.e. without any distortions caused by software or hardware compression of an image file, and then, as he said, after a little bit of editing of the brightness, he could “bring the trail to light”.

Having compared the direction of the shot, the location of the photographer on Google Maps, together we figured out where the volley was fired from – from the area of Savur-Mohyla.

But in order to more accurately determine the launch location, we needed a “second line,” at the very least. We put all the effort to ringing up our acquaintances, looking for witnesses…It’s not like they fired from a Kalashnikov! We found a person whom we have unfortunately lost contact with. Back then, he specifically described where and how he noticed a white trail. Everything matched up.

This data allowed us to intersect the line of the shot and the line described by witnesses, and thus we were able to more accurately established that they fired from the territory between the villages Red October [Chervony Zhovten] and Pervomaysky.

And only then I published my friend’s widely resonating photo, which became one of the main pieces of evidence in the case. Many have said, and even now they keep saying, that the photo was fake, it was all set up. But later, at least four people from different countries independently investigated this photo. The unanimous conclusion: it’s genuine.

 

And what did the experts say?

That we had calculated everything very precisely. And the camera, which took the photo, and the original photos were transferred to the Dutch. The author of the photographs and I have already given testimonies  to the investigators. Over time, the international experts have established right where the fatal shot was fired from. They matched the objects that were in the photo with geographic objects on a map; having pinpointed the location, they located the position of the photographer, the direction of the shot, and so on.

They have also elaborated upon the weather conditions. At the moment [of the crash], this area was located in a zone of variable cloudiness—here is where the border of the cloud front passed, and 15 kilometers to the north it was raining. That is, in the zone where they presumably launched the rocket, the weather conditions were different from those at the crash site. I still remember, someone wrote: “They shot down a civilian airliner – the sky is crying for the people.”

The results of our initial calculations and the research conducted by professionals much later differ only a bit—we were off by just 300-500 meters.

 

Do you know where the Buk went to after that?

On July 17, 2014 at 9:06 pm there was a message that it was near the Snizhne supermarket “Furshet.” People were writing that, most likely, they wanted to get rid of it. I was not able to trace where it was taken after that. Late in the evening in the “Donetsk People’s Republic,” people are afraid to be out on the streets. Moreover, many were hiding from the shelling in cellars and garages.

By the way, a week later, I listened to a record of conversations dated July 17th in the Zello app, where there is a separatist channel “Shakhtarsk – Torez – Snizhne” on the theme of “Our guys – great job.” Plenty of other details surfaced, in particular, we got three localities in Snizhne where people witnessed the Buk missile.

Unfortunately, they all live in occupied territory, so they are not yet able to testify.

 

How did the President of Ukraine find out about the results of you and your friends’ work?

The chain of events has already been described in the media. Close to midnight on July 17, when a more or less clear picture had emerged, we passed all the information to the Donetsk regional councilman Vitaly Kropachev, known for his pro-Ukrainian views. He passed it to Anton Gerashchenko, the advisor to the Interior Minister. Further than that, I don’t know. But the speed of transmission of the information was instantaneous.

I still continue collect data on this tragedy. A time will come when the whole world will know exactly who is guilty for what happened. Among my friends and myself, there is no doubt who caused the death of 298 civilians. Yuri Butusov, editor-in-chief of Censor.net news website, has written that we should receive an award7. My friend and I feel that the best reward for ourselves would be the liberation of the Donbas, and punishment for those who shot down the Boeing and those who gave them the order.

Aric Toler

Aric Toler has been an employee at Bellingcat since 2015. Some of his focuses are in verification of Russian media, the conflict in eastern Ukraine, Russian influence in the American/European far-right, and the ongoing investigation into MH17. Have a question, want to bounce a story idea, or want to write for Bellingcat? Email me at arictoler@bellingcat.com

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101 Comments

  1. Michael

    Maybe I’m to stupid, but I can not find in Bellingcat the News of the propaganda page of the Ukraine Ministry of Defence in Vkontakte.com.

    It’s a video clip of the 16./17.07.14 where everybody can see, BUKs from the ukraine Army in the near of the separatists aerea where the MH17 cross this aerea. And in the video clip is to see, how they working.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MomxNHnUA
    Minute 4:48

    Original:
    http://vk.com/ctrstvua

    Tstrs Mo-Ukrayini
    ЦТРС МО України
    Jul 17, 2014 at 9:47 am
    Програма “Час Ч” №129 (16.07.2014р. Вечірній випуск)

    Reply
      • Michael

        It’s possible that the Ukraine Army shoot down the MH17?

        The German media celebrate you as an expert. But no one reported that at the time of the launch of the MH17 BUK missile systems were the Ukrainian army in the field. As you can see in the video: ready for action!

        Your since the experts. I gave you only a hint.

        Addiction Bellingcat only for evidence against the Russians or also for other possibilities?

        Reply
        • boggled

          Michael, do you have an well documented station like LieNews in Ukraine minutes after MH17 crashed into the ground proclaiming Ukraine shot down a terrorist transport plane?
          Then change their story 5 minutes later to Ukraine military denies shooting down any airplanes that day?

          Do you have any evidence at all other then Ukraine military had BUK missiles on Ukrainian territory, which is their right to do to defend themselves against a large scale Russian invasion that vova was threatening to do at the time??

          If you then please do present it, and it can be discussed.
          If all you have is Ukraine had BUKs and they were deployed so therefore they are guilty, take that argument to the Kremlin sponsored media comment boards, that argument holds little weight in an investigation.
          ALL it is is an accusation without bearing.
          Like me saying because you have a hoodie and the 711 up the street was robbed by someone with a hoodie, you are guilty.

          Fare thee well

          Reply
      • Ramon

        From The Netherlands

        The truth still has too come out.. !!
        Manny people (including myself) don’t believe that the Rusian did it!!
        Wen did not get the right answers!!
        And we pointed our darts on the Oekraïne administration as well!!

        Grtz. Ramon Hendriks

        Reply
    • mynameisjackjr

      Explain to us why the Ukrainian Army would shoot down a plane coming from the “interior” of Ukraine.? That would make no sense.

      Reply
  2. boggled

    Hands up if your little green men in Crimea are Russian military
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you faked a referendum that was conducted at gunpoint of your military.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you had your sponsored media manufacture a story about a crucified child.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you refuse to sent Russian consul to see your military captured inside of Ukraine.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you have been caught shooting across the border intoi Ukraine with your artillery.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you have had your military drones shot down inside Ukraine.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you have have the fascists of the world inside your country and blame others for being fascist.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if the Russians you send into Ukraine are self confirmed fascists like Pavel Guberev.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if you supply arms, troops, ammunition, financial aid, radar support and recruit for Soldiers of Fortune to fight in Eastern Ukraine.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!
    Hands up if those forces you sent in are guilty of war crimes, torture basements, murder, kidnapping, theft, executions, murder, POW abuses against Geneva convention, Srebnicia massacre, extortion, embezzlement and the murder of all those on MH17.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil
    Hands up if your against a tribunal for the criminals that shot down MH17 in a nation you claim to have no military fighting, a plane that was not your, that you had no citizens on, and not in your country.
    http://www.planetputin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Srebrinica-churkin-veto.jpg
    Heil!

    Prosecution rests Your Honor,

    Fare thee well

    Reply
    • Sean Lamb

      Hi boggled.
      I feel you and me are developing a sort of rapport here, so I think you will be interested in my theory on MH370 – since MH370 is, I believe, the reason the “rogue and unrepresentative” unit got the green light from the sponsors of the Kiev junta to down MH17. In the immediate aftermath of MH17 there were reports out of Malaysia that they felt they were being targeted – you don’t here such talk now of course.

      I am putting this to you just before the flaperon is formally identified as from MH370 – as I assume will happen today or tomorrow, and I assume such an identification will be accurate. There are two datasets that relate to the final location of MH370 – one relates to absolute distance from the satellite (which created two arcs for the final position: North and South), the other using the doppler effect claimed to locate it on the southern arc. I am in agreement with Jeff Wise who believes the doppler data series is not genuine. Where I disagree with Mr Wise is his belief that super tech savvy terrorists spoofed the signal – far more likely the satellite provider faked it. I can only speculate why the satellite owner decided to fake it – perhaps a nice man from Vauxhall turned up and said: “I say old chap, we have intelligence assets – very hush hush – that tell us the plane went south. We don’t want to reveal them so is it possible you could release this lovely series of numbers we cooked up to end this sordid speculation?”

      So with that, why did MH370 disappear off the radar? Because it flew into the radar shadow of a Singapore airlines flight (why whenever Malaysian airlines planes disappear from the sky is there a SGI plane hovering at its elbow???). In order to fly into the Indian Ocean and not be detected by Indonesian radar, it would have to have followed the SGI flight until well past the tip of Sumatra before turning south. And I don’t think either of the two data series will support such a flight path.

      So why was it trying to disappear anyway? Originally I think the plan was to have it crash into the sea of Vietnam in some terrorist outrage, a Kiwi oil rig worker off Vietnam claims to have actually seen a flaming plane descend into the sea. Vauxhall and Langley seemed to have a number of terrorist scenarios all ready to go that were released in a half-hearted manner and then quietly dropped. But something went pear-shaped. One of the passengers was a former Kiwi soldier and his wife has said before he left he appeared to have a premonition that he was going to die – now I don’t believe in premonitions of such nature. I do, however, think there were some enforcers on board and they organized the collection of the mobile phones – but they forgot one: the co-pilot. His phone had been left on and when they flew low over the Malaysian peninsula his phone and his phone alone pinged his service provider (that it was his alone is why I think all the passengers had been separated from their phones). I believe as soon as it happened, the co-pilot knew this was a screw up – how could a Boeing crash into the sea off Vietnam and be pinging service providers in Malaysia? So he immediately contacted his handlers – you can imagine the panic and recriminations that would have broken out in the corridors of London and Washington. But what can you do? A new solution would have to be hammered out.

      Meanwhile MH370 is following the Singapore airline flight north. This plane flies right over Afghanistan so originally I thought it went to Bagram, but a civilian airliner would be very conspicuous there and it’s not consistent with the satellite data either. However there is or was another US base where a civilian airliner would be inconspicuous and is bang on the satellite defined arc: the Transit Center at Manas near Bishkek. It handled around 6 million US personnel movements during its 12 years operation and largely using chartered civilian aircraft. So my assumption is MH370 turned east over Afghanistan and left the Singapore airline’s shadow and went to Manas, there it was electronically rebadged before flying on to its final destination with its precious cargo of lychees and 150 Chinese civilians, presumably to a military base on the US mainland – but who knows? Don’t ask me what the US wants with 150 Chinese.

      Finally the flaperon, while it is true modelling did suggest wreckage would end up on Reunion (along with many other locations), the modelling also said this would take around 24 months and not 15 (being the furthest reach of the 18-24 zone. OK, so modelling is not a precise art). My view is the flaperon was attached to a buoy off a US naval base for 12 months before being dropped in location. Sure, that is pretty crazy, but substantially less crazy as kidnapping 150 Chinese. If the US is nuts enough to go around poaching aircraft like that, the flaperon business would be comparatively sane – besides, they would know they have to find some kind of solution, so a lovely intact visibly recognizable Boeing part being found provides the perfect visuals to close the case.

      If I was in charge, I would be doing next gen sequencing of the barnacles and comparing them to sequences of barnacles from the North-East Pacific, Diego Garcia and Western Australia to see which sub-population it is closest to – a little fantasy of mine. And I have instructed the FSB accordingly.

      Anyway, boggled this is strictly for your eyes only – so you get the bigger picture of what Kiev has entangled themselves up with.

      Reply
      • Mad Dog

        I really don’t understand what kind of medicines you must be taking Sean. This latest theory has me completely baffled. It is full of incredulous statements such as the US kidnapping the plane in Afghanistan>>>Yikes. Never flew in that direction, so how do you figure? Some kind of mysterious link with Singapore Airline flights? Gee, gotta be some kind of nefarious connection with the Yankee imperialists in the eyes of the geographically underprivileged, but when one considers that both Malaysia and Singapore (once part of Malaysia) are neighbors and fly to similar destinations with similar time constraints, this makes perfect sense.

        So, either you must be posting with tongue firmly planted in cheek or you actually believe this stuff, hence my reference to meds.

        Reply
        • Sean Lamb

          “such as the US kidnapping the plane in Afghanistan>”

          Actually Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan where the US maintained a base until 2014. It flew behind Singapore Airlines 68 in order to disappear from radar. Singapore Airlines 68 flew over Afghanistan, exactly when and where MH370 peeled off I can’t say.
          I am assuming the pilots – or at least one of them – was acting voluntarily.

          Reply
      • JJ

        Oh yes and pray where would “They” hide a B777 in Bishkek/Manas airport? Anyone who’s been there would know that it is not possible. Now be a good chap and grab your foil hat.

        Reply
    • Rudolfo

      Mate that was absolutely brilliant, in several words you have illustrated what a corrupt and morally bankrupt people the Russian federation is, no conscience, or morals, supporting a millenial tradition of brutalizing its own people and closeby nations. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword, but in the current environment, the Russian economy is going to hell in a handbasket as it were…..

      Reply
  3. Pianoman

    How come my previous comment was not approved? I merely posted a link to another blogger – sure, his thoughts on the matter differ from those expressed by the Bellingcat team. But why not allowing opinions contradicting your own…? Especially if you think they can be discredited.

    Reply
    • Pianoman

      Let’s try this again, then. Blogger Hector Reban’s recent entry makes a range of points that seem to discredit the idea of a BUK brought from Russia. For full article, check:

      https://hectorreban.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/17-july-buk-sightings-planting-evidence-in-advance/

      A few conclusions drawn, if you don’t want to read the entire thing:

      # All evidence timestamped before the disaster took place, lacks visual back-up (like pics and vids);

      # Most of the sightings seem to be hear-say and consist of information coming from or fed by unknown others, supposedly ¨local residents¨;

      # Various people see various transports, consisting of a BUK (WowihaY, Buzzing_Rook), a BUK and two cars (Roman), a BUK with 10 ¨normal¨ vehicles (Necro Mancer), a BUK with three tanks and KAMAZ (spice4russia), a BUK and 7 machines (AP reporter) or only three tanks (Anna R.);

      # The detected differences in the testimonies even appear as a kind of rupture between the Ukrainian top officials Gerashchenko and Tymchuk; In the Bellingcat BUK trail, seen by the Joint Investigation Team as most plausible scenario, this rupture is buried under a pile of silence, using conflicting evidence to construct a narrative.

      Reply
  4. Mad Dog

    Read the Hector stuff, but it is not very convincing. Someone else can do a point by point rebuttal, but it seems to be a very stringent criticism of points that would naturally occur in a war zone. Again, he calls people out for not identifying themselves or their locations, but again, that would be a very dangerous thing to do.

    Reply
  5. David Jones

    I will rebutt the first of Hectors points.
    1.# All evidence timestamped before the disaster took place, lacks visual back-up (like pics and vids);

    the answer to this is that there were no cameras or mobile phones in Ukraine before July 17 2014. camera’s were introduced on july 17 2014 and so it is only from that date that we see photographic evidence.

    Reply
  6. boggled

    Hector, Sean and all can make their citizens investigations and theories all they want.
    They are just from open sources that the public has access to.
    The governments cannot stop that and it is a good way of keeping a check and balance with the government.

    There are a lot the official investigators have access to that we do not, and then they confiscated it before it got in open source which may taint a jury pool.
    They have access to ATM cameras, bank cameras, Security cameras on the streets, and so many other cameras that were filming that day.
    Will they corroborate these few videos and photos?
    We shall have to wait and see, but until they are in public, we work with what we have.

    As to why the public doesn’t take more videos of a BUK on that day, as Pianoman points out, there is a LOT of military traffic going around, should a BUK in a convoy carry more weight?
    You have seen the footage of Ukrainian BUKs going over the roads and there were only a few of them, most supplied by the government or reporters, not very many from the public observing them on the roads.
    The ones that captured them had to be on the route first, and had to be watching for them and not in the bathroom or eating.

    We are lucky for those few that captured them and were paying attention and had a camera near by so that the public thanks to BC and others have a idea of what most likely happened.
    BC and I might not have all the answers to refute the questions that Hector and others have conclusively.

    BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE YET.

    Which is fine, but we are attempting to make some logical conclusions to by what we have access to.
    When the Russian MoD puts something out on Kremlin propaganda channels, of course it is going to be scrutinized and it has come up demonstratively false in their narrative.

    Be sure the JIT team is going back and for with a devils advocate, such as Hector, in their bunch.
    That team goes where the evidence takes it, and if they have a substantial bit of evidence, like streetpole security cameras, that supports the evidence BC uses, it will use it also.
    If not, then we will know this bit of evidence is not usable for one reason or another.
    So far, JIT and others have not found evidence this evidence is false, which says a lot.

    You Kremlin defenders can attempt to discredit all this evidence all you want in public, but believe me, this is just the molehill of the mountain of evidence being sifted through.
    It is true, one or ten witness stories that were taken by TV journalists may not have as much weight because people are getting their own little slice of fame and may embellish a little, but if those witnesses have a lot of evidence backing them up, that testimony holds more weight in an investigation.

    So Hector et al can make there claims about hearsay in their blatant attempts at being Kremlin defenders, however, hearsay or witness testimony gets more and more credible the more people that tell the exact same report.
    JIT has over 20000 witness testimonies, tons of evidence, hundreds of people working on the case, forensic specialists, autopsies, and so much other evidence of what happened.
    The stuff BC et al have is just the tip of the iceberg.

    BC and others make a pretty convincing story that follows GLOBAL and Ukrainian statements about the case from the beginning.

    AND have not changed there story since the early days.

    Russian BUK, Russian missiles, fired from terrorist held territory inside Ukraine, with either a Russian military crew or terrorist crew of SOF – soldiers of fortune – previously trained on a BUK system.

    Kremlin stories have changed more then I have fingers and toes and they are not supported by a whole lot of evidence, it was just a bunch of theories trying to make a scenario fit available evidence that says Ukraine did it.
    THEY FAILED every time.

    The BUK scenario Ukraine has presented has stood the criticism so far with a few minor inconsistencies that could be proven or explained by the OFFICIAL evidence that no one has access to before a criminal trial other then investigators and Prosecutors.
    They could also prove without a doubt that Ukraine was guilty in planning this.
    The conspiracy theorist that state it was a Zionist plot by the Western Cabal of have no facts to back them up other then they think the USA or Democracy is evil.
    They have yet to present anything credible, so to them they are discounted as just propaganda and an antiDemocracy narrative.

    Which goes to Sean, there is no evidence presented that works along your thought lines, I believe, for 370 being what you say.
    Could a group from the USA do it if they had the will and carry it off?
    Of course, they have the technical know how, but they do not have the will and you have not demonstrated they do.
    All I see you doing is fitting a possible BUT unlikely scenario together to fit the evidence when it is probably much simpler and satisfied once more evidence is gathered.
    Your scenario is just one of a ton of scenarios that would fit or explain what happened, IF it was a crime which the jury is still out on, it has not been proven a crime was committed there yet.
    Until more evidence is brought into the light, I won’t wade into a discussion about that plane, there just is too little to go on even now to prove it was not some technical fault of the plane or pilot.

    Fare thee well

    Reply
  7. Mad Dog

    Maybe Sean can revisit his ‘theory’ above in light of the recent publication of the DSB findings….

    Reply
  8. abbbot

    The photo is fake. It shows clear sky and sunny day. The crash accident report states that the MH17 crew moved out of the route due to large storm cloud.

    Reply
  9. Deus Abscondis

    Self engratiating drivel,

    no attempt to exclude the mine or field fire.

    At 12km distance from the camera what width would you say that smoke plume is?

    Here’s a hint, 1° angle of subduction at the camera gives a 100m at 12km.

    Now find a shot of a BUK missile trail at about 12km. Can’t find one? Make one up in photoshop and superimpose it into the scene.

    It’s not looking good, is it?

    Besides the alleged launch point is well below the apparent origin of the smoke as it tapers up from the left dark smoke. Let’s also forget that the trail would be angled towards the camera before disappearing into the clouds at 3300ft or so according to ATC/NOTAM weather description.

    Good investigation requires one to exclude possible alternative explanations. Bellingcat fails to do so. It’s called bias and is blatant in this case as it is in numerous other cases of “evidence” for the Russian BUK hypothesis. It’s a major failure of judgment. I guess the JIT won’t put you on the stand to swear by your exhaustive efforts to exclude alternative explanations, but you won’t be forgotten by those looking for real evidence in the name of MH17 victims. Poor show chaps.

    @Deus_Abscondis

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