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Azerbaijan’s Incremental Increase On The Nagorno Karabagh Frontline

April 12, 2016

By Masis Ingilizian

Translations: Русский

karabagh 2

The Red line illustrates the distance between the demarcation line and the newly seized post of Lele Tepe, a distance of approximately 1 km.

On April 2nd, reports began to flood in from the Northern villages of Karabagh regarding a major Azerbaijani offensive on their territory. By April 3rd, Azerbaijan’s President Aliyev openly admitted that he had felt compelled to act in response to the lack of progress in peace talks facilitated by the Minsk Group, with the international media quoting him as saying: “If Armenian soldiers don’t want to die, they should leave Azerbaijani territory.”[i] Azerbaijan utilised blitzkrieg tactics to capture villages along the Nagorno Karabagh frontline. The fighting came to a halt on April 5th. The 4-day battle was the culmination of an increasing escalation of clashes over the past 22 years of the “no war – no peace” stalemate, following the 1988-1994 war that left over 30,000 dead.

The Armenians have inhabited the Karabagh plains since ancient times. Fighting began with the arrival of nomadic Turkic tribes on the plains of Karabagh in the 1750s. While the originating causes of the conflict remain obscure, intermittent warfare continued into the 20th century. Azerbaijani historians now argue that the land belongs to Azerbaijan, based on the claim that they are descendants of Christian Caucasian Albanians. There was an uneasy, centrally imposed peace during Soviet times. With the pending collapse of the USSR, in December 1991 the autonomous region of Nagorno Karabagh voted overwhelmingly for independence. By then the war was well and truly underway, ending with a ceasefire in 1994. Since then, occasional flare-ups have undermined the peaceful resolution of the conflict.[ii]

While the 1994 ceasefire agreement effectively brought an end to full-scale warfare, it did not produce an entirely satisfactory outcome for either side. On the one hand, the victory of the people of Nagorno Karabagh did not translate into recognition as an independent state, and the threat of future war loomed over its head. On the other hand, Azerbaijan effectively lost control of several districts outside the autonomous region of Nagorno Karabagh, and increasingly used escalation of clashes to pressure its negotiation partner, Armenia, to agree to a compromise favorable to Azerbaijan. Due to the Minsk group failure of reaching a solution, Azerbaijan has openly admitted to the possibility of using force as a way of achieving its ends.[iii]

Armenian intelligence and imagery analysts have noted a shift in Azerbaijani strategy since 2014. Baku’s current strategy is now twofold. Firstly, it involves escalating tensions along the frontline at a snail’s pace to catch Armenia off guard, as shown by the gradual increase in heavy military hardware between 2014 and 2016 and the intensification of cross-border clashes. Secondly, as we saw last week, it involves applying full force on the day of attack, using blitzkrieg tactics to take opposing posts and to reclaim territory. Richard Giragossian, founding director of the Yerevan-based Regional Studies Center, notes: “Unlike each previous escalation, the Azerbaijani offensive campaign was based on a new strategy to seize, secure and sustain control of territory.”[iv]

On April 2nd, Armenia was caught off guard. While “tit for tat” escalations and the taking and retaking of military posts along the demarcation had been a constant feature of the 22 year ceasefire, with Special Forces periodically used to capture new trenches, the April 2nd offensive was on a significantly greater scale. Furthermore, the large scale indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations in villages on the frontline changed the character of the conflict. Smerch missiles and TOS A1 rocket launchers were also used for the first time. Armenia retaliated using howitzers to contain the oncoming attack. On the day of the surprise attack on April 2nd, the entire length of the Karabagh frontline was engulfed in fighting, with Karabagh forces taking the brunt of a concentrated effort by Azerbaijan in Talish and Madaghis in the North Eastern sector of Nagorno Karabagh.

With a strongly fortified frontline on the Karabagh side and many uninhabited villages across the entire length of the line of contact, questions have been raised as to why Azerbaijan subjected 3 inhabited villages to indiscriminate bombing. This may have been a tactic to kill the will of the Karabagh people, though a simpler explanation may be that it was intended to cause panic in the civilian population and divert attention while the Azerbaijani army proceeded to take important posts towards the Southern end of the frontline, while intensifying bombardment throughout the entire length of demarcation line.

At the same time, despite the potential firepower both countries have at their disposal, the war has been contained to the battle arena near the frontier villages. Both countries are bound by doctrines to ensure that the war does not draw in their reserves or, more importantly, major regional and global powers. For this reason, Armenia did not strike any key infrastructure behind the Azerbaijani frontline – a last resort in Armenia’s defense posture. Azerbaijan similarly limited its bombing to the frontier villages, and reports confirm that Stepanakert was not hit. However, the President of Azerbaijan made a clear announcement that Stepanakert would be targeted if Karabagh forces did not withdraw from the disputed territories. In response, President Serzh Sargsyan threatened Azerbaijan with retaliatory strikes. He also threatened to recognise Karabagh’s independence, a move that could have potentially escalated the conflict.

Azerbaijan successfully entered the outskirts of the village of Talish on the first day of fighting, with Karabagh’s conscript soldiers holding the front against Azerbaijan’s superior Special Forces. It is not known exactly when Karabagh began utilising its own Special Forces to conduct sweep-up operations in territory now controlled by Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan’s low-level tank incursion into the region tested Armenian anti-tank skills. Bellingcat has information that anti-tank battalions were utilised by Karabagh, as a number of Karabagh’s fatalities have been linked to various Special Forces for the battle of the heights overlooking Talish from the North and North East. Azerbaijani pro-Government news outlet Haqqin.az was quick to boast about the gains of their armed forces, particularly with regard to Talish.[v] Armenian news outlets also confirmed that there was a battle for the two villages.[vi] Nevertheless, the Azerbaijani military offensive was quickly slowed down. Karabagh’s forces began taking control of the battlefield and, by April 3rd,  the area around Talish had come back under their full control. However, they were still far from their goal of regaining all the lost posts, and the fighting continued in this battlefield until April 4th.

The withdrawal of Karabagh forces to the second line was a deliberate strategy aimed at opening up a clear firing ground for high precision artillery strikes into Karabagh trenches now occupied by Azerbaijani Special Forces. Forfeiting parts of the first line allowed them to secure the second lines and to ensure effective rebuff of Azerbaijani attacks and oncoming troop movement. Subsequently, trenches in Karabagh now occupied by Azerbaijan came under heavy fire from the Armenian side. So, while Karabagh’s armed forces lost up to 8 posts within the first two days of fighting,[vii], Azerbaijani Special Forces came under heavy bombardment in the newly seized trenches and were soon under siege as they were surrounded by Karabagh armed forces. Karabagh used carefully planned flanking tactics to ensure heavy losses against a more powerful opposition. This clearly explains the huge material and personnel losses on the Azerbaijani side. It is yet to be understood why Azerbaijan gave up so much in financial and human losses for incremental advances on the frontline.

On the night of April 3rd, President Aliyev announced a unilateral ceasefire. This was a shrewd political-military tactic aimed at winning the global information war and potentially confusing Karabagh’s military planners on the ground. Western news outlets and some world leaders were quick to blame Armenia for the continued fighting along the battlelines, yet in reality there was no actual ceasefire on the ground. On the contrary, Aliyev’s announcement was followed immediately by the intensification of Azerbaijani attacks on the Southern parts of Karabagh. This strategy was an attempt to divert Karabagh firepower holding the lines at Talish, Madaghis and Martakert. Analysts conclude that capture of territory was the first key political objective for Azerbaijan, and video footage of a staged news report of the Azeri victory in Talish indicates that the seizure of territories was important for internal consumption. A second, broader strategy could have been to break the line and take important posts towards the south of the frontline, as seen by the capture of Lele Tepe, a strategic point on a hill.[viii]

Two ongoing issues for Karabagh have been the fire-to-target cost ratio and the timely replenishing of overall stock reserves. With its limited budget, taking out helicopters or small RCS targets such as drones with sophisticated air defense equipment would be fairly costly for Karabagh in a limited war. Depleted stocks would also present an issue in the case of a renewed attack or all out-war within a short time frame. In the current war, Karabagh was left taking out one helicopter with an RPG and using man pads for their air defense, posing both a logistical and financial issue for Karabagh on the battlefield. While Azerbaijan did not test the full potential of Karabagh’s air defense forces, they were quick to stop the air war and resorted to the use of their new Kamikaze Drones from Israel,[ix] a difficult low-RCS target for Karabagh’s older air defense systems.

Azerbaijan was able to break the line and achieve vital military objectives. Despite eventually losing the heights of the village of Talish, they were still in control of 8 posts (as confirmed by the Armenian media[x]) and continued their fight to retain their newly seized ground with heavy bombardment along the frontline. By April 4th (day 3), villages on the Karabagh side were emptied of their inhabitants because of indiscriminate bombing, though the inhabitants of Martakert, a larger village at the bottom of the Northeast sector, remained steadfast. Karabagh forces were overwhelmed by the Azerbaijani offensive and were forced to ensure the safety of their civilian population. At the same time, they were engaged in heavy battles to retake lost posts and bring the frontier back to pre-war lines. By the end of April 4th, the Karabagh forces had pushed back the Azeri offensive and were in control of most of the posts lost during the first 2 days of fighting. The tactic of retreat, bombardment and flanking employed by the Karabagh forces ensured that the conscript Karabagh army was able to hold off the major initial thrust from Azerbaijani Special Forces, with Karabagh Special Forces following through to begin sweep up operations and retake seized trenches and villages.

While the bombing was contained to the frontline, the war was not limited to military conflict. Azerbaijan launched a major cyber, information and communication war in an attempt to sabotage Karabagh’s relief efforts and dampen morale. Azerbaijani hackers infiltrated news websites and social media in Karabagh and Armenian. Counter hackers retaliated by taking down Azerbaijan government sites. In addition, reports suggest that Karabagh ceased all war-related communications via civilian internet and phone lines. Nevertheless, a busload of volunteer fighters from Armenia was hit with a direct strike by a Kamikaze drone, and Bellingcat suggests that this was made possible by Azerbaijani interception of Karabagh’s communication lines.

Another issue for Karabagh has been the overwhelming number of volunteers from Armenia and the Armenian diaspora heading to Stepanakert join the war effort, creating a potential logistical nightmare for the Karabagh forces and for the state. As a result, volunteer recruitment was quickly limited to highly trained individuals and groups.

By day 4, Azerbaijan had lost all but two posts from their initial thrust. Azerbaijan’s military offensive and strong tactical planning were offset by a sophisticated defensive response by Karabagh forces. April 4th was the last day of heavy fighting, with Karabagh forces managing to disengage artillery and grad strikes and concentrating their efforts on retaking the two remaining posts. Azerbaijan responded by concentrating on their main objective, namely that of holding on to newly seized ground, and as the battles diminished along the frontline the battle for Lele Tepe and other unidentified lost posts intensified. By this time, major powers had initiated diplomatic means to make sure that the battle did not turn into an all-out war. Armenian posts and trenches lost in the fighting are yet to be identified, though information tells us that one post was lost in the Northeast sector near the battlefront of Talish.[xi] The trench shown in the staged Azerbaijani victory footage, claimed to be at Talish, could in fact have been filmed at one of the nearby trenches or at the NorthEast heights of Talish were serious fighting raged. Another captured post down south closer to Fizuli, called Lele Tepe, was confirmed by Azerbaijani news agency Day.az.[xii] Video footage also confirms Azerbaijani soldiers digging in at Lele Tepe,[xiii] and trenches identified by Google Images[xiv] can be matched with available video footage. The Karabagh government has admitted to the loss of two “unimportant” posts, though Bellingcat has determined that an unknown number of other posts are still under Azerbaijani control. Bellingcat’s analysis also deduces that the Southern post of Lele Tepe[xv] is a vital strategic point for Karabagh, which means that gaining this post has been a strategic victory for Azerbaijan, providing its forces with open ground of one kilometre in length from which to fire into Karabagh in future battles. This leads analysts to conclude that the heavy fighting in the north could have been an effort to divert Armenian efforts while Azerbaijan took posts on the lower points of the contact line.

Trench system

The exact length of the seized trench system is unknown, though reports suggest that approximately 1km is under Azerbaijani control.

Bellingcat can also conclude from contacts on the Azerbaijani side that the initial thrust was not as effective as anticipated. The objective had been to take villages along the frontline, as seen by news reports of victory by Azerbaijan. This was a shrewd tactic of multipronged continuous diversion attacks in the north and in the south to ensure that Karabagh’s line of defense was broken at any cost. However, from the moment that they were met with fierce resistance, Azerbaijan changed tactics, hence Aliyev’s ceasefire announcement. Aliyev was quick to announce a victory for the Azerbaijani side, with a number of videos surfacing on YouTube. For instance, a video published on April 3rd shows the heights of Talish from the Azerbaijani side, obviously taken on the day of fierce fighting when Karabagh forces were fighting for the outskirts of the village of Talish.[xvi] However, a staged victory footage that surfaced on YouTube on April 8th showed only a small glimpse of a mountaintop, with a reporter standing next to a signpost identifying the village of Talish[xvii]. We have yet to see recent confirmed footage of Talish from Azerbaijani news sources. Other heavy reporting from the hilltop of Lele Tepe also confirms Azerbaijan’s intense media campaign to show its forces as being victorious.

While the battle plans of both countries were sophisticated and well executed, the loss of personnel was greater than anticipated, especially on the Azerbaijani side. The ratio of Azerbaijani human and material loss versus territorial gain was high, especially in the light Azerbaijan only partially achieving its goal of taking strategic posts. The defender usually suffers one-third of the casualties of the attacker, and we know that Karabagh’s superior defense tactics ensured heavy losses among Azerbaijan’s Special Forces. Based on available statistics, the Karabagh side has approximately 50 dead, over 100 injured and 18 missing in action, though this figure increases by the day with new figures reaching beyond 70. This death toll illustrates the heavy battles that raged for the retake of lost posts. It is likely that releasing the number of dead incrementally is a tactic by Karabagh to downplay the death toll. From all of this, we can deduce that the number of losses on the Azerbaijani side would be higher. Using estimates from various sources, Bellingcat concludes that there were at least 400 Azerbaijani fatalities, which means that the fatality rates publicly cited by Azerbaijan are also underestimated. Other estimates are in the thousands, though a conservative estimate by Bellingcat suggests a range of between 400 and 500.

In initiating these latest clashes, Azerbaijan has pushed Armenia away from the negotiating table, undermined the Madrid principles and forfeited any possibility of peaceful resolution. Those in Armenia who had previously advocated a return of some of the disputed territories to Azerbaijan are now advising their government that this is no longer possible, in the light of Azerbaijan resorting to war. This is an unfortunate turn of events and does not bode well for the future. Prior to April 2nd, Azerbaijan faced a flexible negotiating partner who was willing to consider a compromise agreement. Azerbaijan’s impatience and ‘all or nothing’ approach, culminating in the April 2nd attacks, have resulted in the Armenian side digging its heels and Azerbaijan is now left with little to show for except the loss of a potential compromise agreement.

karabagh

The white circle surrounding the trench illustrates the trench system upon a hill seized by Azerbaijan. The red line represents the distance between the first and second lines of trenches of the Karabagh forces, a distance of approximately 500 metres.

 

[i] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRWLP8t2DSA (In English, translated by Azerbaijani Radio Free Europe).

[ii]http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/09/war-looms-south-caucasus-150914105543346.html and

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/04/nagorno-karabakh-contested-narratives-160405132828 126.html.

[iii] https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/russia-trying-maintain-balance-caucasus.

[iv] http://www.regional-studies.org/news/events/briefings/541-040416.

[v] http://haqqin.az/news/67706.

[vi] http://www.tert.am/en/news/2016/04/06/Talish/1985131 and http://www.tert.am/en/news/2016/04/06/Talish/1985140.

[vii] http://www.yerkir.am/news/view/104389.html.

[viii] http://news.day.az/azerinews/767758.html and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcepglIxf_s&nohtml5=False.

[ix] http://www.timesofisrael.com/azerbaijan-said-using-israeli-drones-against-armenians/ and

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/08/suicide-drone-used-for-first-time-in-fighting-between-azerbaijan/.

[x] http://www.yerkir.am/news/view/104389.html.

[xi] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxVL2dk87s&nohtml5=False.

[xii] http://haqqin.az/news/67706.

[xiii] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcepglIxf_s

[xiv] 39°24’29.14″N 47°16’6.28″E.

[xv] 39°24’29.14″N 47°16’6.28″E.

[xvi] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9m0o5BAcw&nohtml5=False.

[xvii] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxVL2dk87s

 

By Masis Ingilizian

The author would like to acknowledge the contribution of Dr Armen Gakavian in producing this article. He is also grateful to Ani Mejlumyan for her assistance with sources and for identifying key informants in the battlefield and in Baku.

Masis Ingilizian

Masis Ingilizian is a researcher at the Australian Institute for Holocaust and Genocide Studies. He was previously a regular contributor for the publication IMINT Analysis edited by Sean O’Connor. His research focuses on the Caucasus, Iran and Russia, spanning the fields of strategic warfare, geopolitics and geostrategy. Masis tracks developments in the Nagorno-Karabagh conflict and provides ongoing insight into the geopolitics and growing tensions in the region, using imagery and photos for analysis. He also writes on the foreign policies of both Russia and the West.

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185 Comments

  1. Armen

    Okay, all opinions aside? Why did the Azeri’s/Turk’s attack civilian targets km’s away from the FRONTLINE? They killed a 12 year old boy and injured another two young boys. They executed three elderly civilians and cut their EARS OFF! THEY TORTURED, MUTILATED AND KILLED 18 ARMENIAN SOLDIERS AFTER THEY SURRENDERED. THEY DECAPITATED AND PARADED A YEZDI ARMENIAN SOLDIERS HEAD. THESE ACTIONS ONLY VALIDATE THEIR BARBARIC NOMADIC HISTORY.

    WE DEFEATED THE HEAVILY ARMED AZERI’S IN THE EARLY 90’S WAR WITHOUT AN ARMY AND WE WILL DEMOLISH THEM WITH OUR ARMY TODAY. NEXT TIME ALIYEV BEGS FOR A CEASEFIRE WE WILL BE IN BAKU!!

    Reply
    • Jeb

      Azerbaijan is trying to hide the fact they are attacking civilian populations. But there is no hiding it. They are. And it’s really ugly. Video of it all over the place. Decapitation video of the Yezdi soldier is there as well. If it smells like ISIS, looks like ISIS, talks like ISIS, acts like ISIS, then it must be ISIS.

      Reply
      • Sam

        I haven’t see the videos you speak of…

        But I have seen the YouTube video of a Russian soldier cutting the ear off a Ukrainian POW.

        You guys need to need to leave the historical hatred behind.

        Grow up, you are both pawns of Russia, who sells both countries weapons, and pretends to be a peacemaker.

        My Armenian friends in Europe wish both sides would chill the fuck out.

        No one will “win”, many will die.

        Join the 21st century where people prosper by working together.

        France and Germany, UK and France, etc….
        They all fought each other for centuries, and are now friends.

        Reply
        • stranger

          “But I have seen the YouTube video of a Russian soldier cutting the ear off a Ukrainian POW.” please send the link, because I hardly believe. Don’t you confuse with Syria and Chechnya??

          For Armenians and Ayzerbaydzhans I wish the same, find a compromize.

          Reply
          • Sam

            I’ll look for the link and post it when I find it.

            I was surprised it wasn’t taken down by the original poster.

            It was filmed by Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

            I’ve watched the video a few times over the last two years to remind myself of the brutality with which humans treat each other.

          • Sam

            Hmm, do you want me to link it so you can watch it or so Russia can block it or take it down?

            It really is disturbing because at first the Russian soldier is just smacking the Ukrainian POW around then walks away.

            Then the Russian soldier runs back and cuts off the POW’s without any provocation.

            I’ll post a link after I download and save a copy.

          • stranger

            Sam, Russia is not controlling youtube yet, and hardly it would request a copyright violation, so please don’t worry. Everything I saw from Crimea the Russian soldiers were extremely disciplined and ‘polite’. So I just cannot believe. Was it a Russian soldier or a rebel, wasn’t it played? Please send the link because it seems something unusual if not a fake.

          • stranger

            Sam, unless you send the link, I would assume that is not true

          • stranger

            Sam, I’m still waiting for your link, if you are responsible for your words of course.

        • Jeb

          Absolutely a peaceful resolution is key. But if you go on LiveLeaks, you’ll see video of Azerbaijani soldiers and the war crimes they committed that weekend of the attacks. They are on video with the beheaded head of 19 year old Yezdi Armenian soldier. Azerbaijani soldiers are not soldiers. They are mercenaries.

          Reply
  2. AKS

    What a great write up.

    Yes sure, Azeris did not lose more than 100. Dream on.
    It was clearly a attempted blitzkrieg, and when Azeris saw the heavy resistance they had to change plans. It is clear to anyone, put aside your biases.
    To say that Armenians only appeared there in 19th century is beyond asinine. Were there influx of Armenians in the 19th century? Sure. But the region was always known to be Armenian inhabited, even if the rulers were not Armenian at times.
    Most of Balkans was under Turkish rule for centuries, does not make Serbia, or Bulgaria a Turkish land.
    Armenian losses will get higher as the smoke clears for sure, but so will Azeri losses.
    Hopefully this will remind Azerbaijan that it can not solve its problems with wars.

    Reply
  3. Naidni

    The Armenians have inhabited the Karabagh plains since ancient times.

    Ya Bullshit!!!

    Reply
    • Mike

      Naidni,
      Naidni,
      When you use offensive language you betray lack of proper upbringing and discipline. The Armenian recruits, most of them untried young men in their early ’20s, beat the professional army of Az which has far more sophisticated weapons, more of them and was greater in number than the defending Armenian forces. The Armenians beat the As because of their discipline. Imagine what the Az forces will face when/if they challenge the Armenian Army.

      Reply
      • Djahangir

        We were greater in numbers, but definitely not experienced/professional!
        As an Azerbaijani, I admit that Armenians are generally more united when it comes to the protection of the motherland. I admit that they are, in average, more hardworking and disciplined. But, during first war, there was no such thing as Armenian Army. It was Russian Army(±2.5 Armenians). Our army didn’t exist as well. It was just gathering of Azerbaijanis who lived there under command of people who has some military experience. They didn’t have military training, good communications systems, weapons were just piece of crap. It was by no means army. Compare this to professional, well-trained and fully equipped army of Russia. You get the picture. It is semi-artificial war, timed bomb if you wish, whose roots go to Russo-Iranian war, and it always was and is, a common tactic for Russian government to create regions of high tension under their full control inside the territory it wanted to control. There are tons of examples: Moldova(PMR), Georgia(SO&Abkhazia), Ukraine … But instead of choosing to punch Russia in the face and saying no to destabilisation in the region your government chose to materialize its financial fantasies. That’s the very reason I hate your government … as well as mine for not telling people the truth about who our actual enemy is. I still don’t know why they’ve never accused these bastards of all the shit they’ve done to us. If it were Latvia, it would sue them. Believe me, at some point your government WILL have to make the ultimate choice in favour of the West, because Russia’s failing economy will no longer be able to spoon-feed yours and there’s no reason for government to support Russians besides the aforementioned. And then you will see their true face and suffer from it. If so, then please don’t ask us or anybody else in Caucasus for help, you deserve this. You have been warned!

        Reply
        • stranger

          “a common tactic for Russian government to create regions of high tension under their full control inside the territory it wanted to control”
          That was not Russia to create those tensions. The animosity in Caucasus has centuries of history from the times of Persian and Ottoman empires and even before. That are you who should find the solution to live in peace with your neighbors or ethnical autonomic regions. Russia just tried to bring you apart so that you wouldn’t kill each others.

          Reply
          • Arthur

            how falsely smart you are my friend, if you think your wikipedia is worth something you must be a little boy or a girl who just learned about it and wants to share his findings. what I said is something that you can learn from in a country again, with a propaganda as strong as in north korea, which is shameful for your governement and your nation. the whole geopolitics is based on if … then… approach, so what I said again is something that you can learn from. all my references are not going to open in az or open as a porn website, because again you live in a country with a propaganda as strong as in north korea. you know only that part of your country that your government wants you to know, and your neighbors are actually trying to free you from aliev’s dictatorship, we want him to stop attacking NKR and AM, free thousands of political prisoners, stop stealing from his own nation and stop building a golden empire where only his family is allowed. I am glad that you know one of the best sayings in the world (put up or shut up) I really like it. but I do not feel like you used it in a correct way, so before going all crazy think about what the international community is going to think about you and az.

          • stranger

            I hope you were answering to Djahangir, not to me : ) Don’t kill each other guys…

          • Arthur

            Yes stranger it was meant for djahangir, if he plays safe, I swear, I wont kill him 🙂

          • Djahangir Lankaranli

            It was Russia who annexed territories of today’s Armenia and Azerbaijan, as well as many others, from Iran. It was Russia who intentionally reserved the right (Treaty of Gulistan) to facilitate Christianisation of Karabakh.
            If you say that Russia is there to separate us, so we won’t kill each other, where it was during 1988-1990? Why did Russia’s army stand still while the situation was getting only worse and worse, while everything was only beginning, while everything could be easily prevented? Why do they sell arms to both sides of the conflict if they want us not to kill each other?

            P.S.: Hatred never exists without source. Let me enumerate you what Russia has done to us.
            After 23 months of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic’s independence, they invaded our land. During invasion of Baku tens of thousands civilians died of artillery fire from Russian gunships. Thousands of political activists and members of former government were arrested and executed. But the bloody rampage didn’t end there. They have changed our alphabet, so that our future generations will not be able to read historical books to understand what sort of bastards there were and are(and it worked!). They confiscated all private property and executed those who refused to obey. They prohibited national holidays and Islam. They prohibited visiting Iran for those who lived in southern part of AzSSR. Thousands of families were separated by Iron Curtain. Then, they moved us, as well as everybody, inside trains, treating us like animals. They sucked our oil for free for 75 years. This was one of factors of success in WW2. Did they apologise? What did they give us in return? “Free” education and medicine? When people in my country say that in Soviet times everything was good because there was “free” education and medicine, I always tell them: “Remember, this was free not because Soviets loved you, but because it was backed by completely legitimate money which those “Robin Hoods” took from our people in a very bloody manner. If you really want such “free” education, don’t cry when of the robberies will happen with you or your relatives!”. Even with this in mind, no other nation suffered as much as Chechens. Russia showed its true face on Chechen people. But the response didn’t take too long, that’s why I admire this nation. They proved to the whole world that if you want Russians to respect you, you have to hate them. You have to suppress their people and culture. You have to not allow them to learn their language. You have to make them feel ashamed/afraid just because they are Russians. Total physical elimination and forced extradition combined with depriving them from your citizenship. If you know any other PROVED way to make them treat your nation like humans, tell me. By the way, there are some good questions to ask Azerbaijani government:
            1) Why weren’t Russians, who were forcefully sent in Azerbaijan, sent back in Russia?
            Those people tell that they would like to return to Russia. Why not help them? Those people mostly support Russian government and the wicked ideas of “Russian World” just like their brainwashed Russian counterparts, thus if Russia will try to repeat Crimea scenario in Baku, they will be first to really support them! But instead, our government gives them everything to keep their mouthes shut and they employ them on key government positions! This is #1 threat to national security! Of the very same type which lead to annexation of Crimea.
            2) Why the f**k you keep Russian schools? Those Russians live on our land for 25+ years. They MUST know and speak our language! It is constitutional duty of every citizen! But instead you provide them with Russian schools and universities. Why should Russians have the luxury of learning all subjects in their language for the money of Azerbaijani tax payers? Why do you attempt to repeat (bad) history? Not only you keep the existing Russian schools, you build new ones! Shame on you! How are you going to make those people respect you if you don’t respect yourself?

          • stranger

            The greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the collapse of USSR was in the release of all those barbarian demons of wild nationalism, racism and ethnical hatred. Don’t pretend that is directed only against Russians or that is by any way justified.
            In USSR all ethnical conflicts were suppressed and all nationalities and ethnicities were announced equal. You had an opportunity to study at the best universities all over USSR, mostly located in Moscow and Peterburg, for free. Can you afford studding, say, in Europe for your own money now? I hope you can, many cannot.
            Russian who came to your republic, were mostly highly educated specialists, who helped to raise your industries including your the only profitable oil business. Btw you should be grateful for Soviets for your state, because you had never had it before the collapse of USSR, you would have been a part of Iran now otherwise. The suppression of Islam during USSR and revoke of the private property in Stalin times was the same all over country and Russian suffered from that in the first turn, in the same way all religions including Christianity were suppressed, and you were not exceptional.
            Your hatred to Armenians (and i believe vice-verse too) is as ancient as Islam and Christianity are. Armenians and Georgians were a Christian minority inside a hostile Islamic environment, Persian and Ottoman Empires, leading to multiple ethnical pogroms and massacres, ended up by the Armenian genocide in 1915.
            After the collapse of USSR that ethnical hatred including actual massacres of civilians just because they are of a different nationality reappeared again all over the borders of the former USSR. Don’t allow to turn yourself into wild barbarians, meaning, particularly concerning racism and ethnical hatred.
            P.S. Or was you comment just a stupid provocation? I better hope so.

          • stranger

            As for the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic it existed for less than 2 years. It was not a developed independend state, but an uprising and announcement of a new republic during the time when the country, Russian Empire, was weakened by the Bolshevik Revolution and the following civil war combined with the foreign intervention of Britain, France, USA, and others. The same was going on in Ukraine and Checnia. Only Baltics and Finland managed to escape. All others were returned by Bolsheviks when they actually were collecting back the collapsing Russian empire pieces
            If you remember in Russia itself it was a bourgeois revolution in February when the czar left and only after that Bolsheviks took the power. So for Russia it would also be better if Bolshevik Revolution never happened. But hardly you can blame Russians as nationality for that.
            I know little about the history of Azerbaijan as the part of Russian empire when it was taken from Persia. Would you prefer to live in Iran now instead? Bolsheviks formed an autonomic Azerbaijan republic which became a first in the history independent state in 1991.
            What I know that people of the Soviet generation who are 40-50 now from Armenia, Azerbaijan, Russia and all post Soviet countries in general perfectly understand each other’s and have no any hatred or tensions against each other’s, to the best of what I know. This weird nationalism is probably affecting the younger generation, which is anaware of how it was that time. Although I don’t know for sure.

          • stranger

            Djahangir, could you please tell, who in Aizerbaijan is promoting those anti-Russian sentiments, rewriting the history, publish the relevant books, agitating, new school books, etc. Are there any funds which finance such authors and relevant journalists?
            Because I understand that all post Soviet countries have had a very difficult mutual history. But your those statements remind so much the rhetoric of Ukrainian nationalists. I wonder if those sentiments, articles, boos, etc are funded from the same source?

          • Arthur

            hahhaha djahangir why you think you are so smart when you are not 🙂 I told you already why I am not going to publish any references. if you do not understand the reason please read my comment again and again until you understand or tell you teacher to read and explain it to you or eventually go to aliev and let him explain it to you. if you still do not understand the reason than you know its life, you were not so lucky, deal with it.

            and please answer Roseanne’s question if you want to be back to the question. why is ramil safarov (a coward who beheaded a sleeping man) a hero to a whole azeri nation, if we can call azeri a nation? why is that high ranked military officer (another coward who beheaded an 18 yeras old Yazidi soldier and was posing with it) is a hero to you?

            dont you have someone useful for the Earth we live on? dont you have someone smart in that country of 8 mln people? is not there even one scientist, artist, a champion of sports (without any bribes)? I guess you all like that beheading activity, it is an inseparable part of your daily life.

            and after all this you accuse Armenians of committing a genocide of azeris, it is absurd. khojalu events, so called genocide was organized and implemented by azeri to be president heydar aliev, he created that scene to show the people that the current government can not handle the situation and eventually heydar became the president starting the wealth of aliev family. those events occurred in territories controlled by azeris, how could Armenians mass kill azeris in an area controlled by azeris, do you even hear yourself?

          • Arthur

            az lost the war that they started. to hide their shame they had to make up a story, they do it a lot, this is nothing new.

            1. The NKR was never part of az, it never had anything to do with az, ever. NKR was just another republic in the USSR and it is just another republic now. that land (also all of az, but lets leave that apart for now) has no sign of muslim on it that is older than 40 years old, they built a couple of mosques during the ussr. meanwhile there are Armenian churches that are 1000 years old (for all azeris 1000>40) therefore there can not be a single doubt that NKR (also the whole az) is an Armenian land ALWAYS populated by Armenians, if you do not believe just visit the place.

            3. russian army did not stand still. they were fighting for az against AM because Armenians wanted independence and Gorbochov (then the highest ranked of ussr) wanted to save the union. several special units were fighting on the az side, even heydar sent a special thank you to gorbochov.

            4. during the ussr some 230,000 russians were living in az, that had to flee az as soon as they can, because they finally had the chance to eliminate everything non-muslim from az, including russians. as a result a lot of russians were killed and deported from az. thats why only the special units were fighting for the az and not the army, because that would be easier to keep in secret.

            5. I love the alphabet part, someone changed their alphabet that was created by some other person, still not azeri 🙂 AM alphabet is more than 1600 years old.

            6. and how ignorant you have to be towards your own history to let letters get in your way. there are 3 distinctive generations of Armenian language and we can still read them if we need to.

            7. during the world war 2 azeris had one of the least amounts of soldiers and among the veterans (including russian, georgian, Armenian, belarussian, those I heard for sure) they say that at the beginning of a battle all azeris were backing up and were telling the same excuse about how bad their belly hurts 😀 while Armenians had 4 marshals, 1 marine admiral (without having a sea) one of our battalions 89th danced the famous Armenian dance of Qochari in Berlin after taking it. all I am saying that azeris did not contribute to the ussr much, besides of course supplying with oil, which is not theirs really it just is there were they are.

            6. Chechens are happily living in russia even after the war, they use their money and everything. the real reason why djahangir admires this nation is because they also took part in the war of 90s, but soon left, because they found out that they can not be much help against our small but fiercely trained and patriotic soldiers. and djahangir hopes that in the future they will help them again, yes he likes to think positive. 🙂

            7. what a propaganda of hatred, this is genius “They proved to the whole world that if you want Russians to respect you, you have to hate them.” what do you have to do to make usa respect you, djahangir? 🙂 please, I really really want to know this one, please give me a piece of your mind. also about germany, france and great britain.

            8. it gets serious “You have to suppress their people and culture. You have to not allow them to learn their language. You have to make them feel ashamed/afraid just because they are Russians. Total physical elimination and forced extradition combined with depriving them from your citizenship. ” do you imagine what they learn in school if this djahangir guy tells this here, to us. I would be very very worried if I was a russian in az. this in not funny guys. this is the beginning of another genocide of russians in az.

            9. “If you know any other PROVED way to make them treat your nation like humans, tell me. ” proved way? you just proved that az did kill russians during 90s, you did PROVED it. I think you are going to have huge trouble with the kgb of az. wow, finally an aeri said that he is guilty of doing something bad.

            10. ok, here is what you are going to do. you are going to get a russian made axe and behead every single russian you meet on the street, you will be announced as a hero, I guarantee!!!!!

          • stranger

            You are asking what was good in USSR? There were no ever such ethnical hatred, pogroms and just open wars. Those pristine animal demons were pushed deep into underground just to explode everything when the country was about to collapse. From that prospective it was a huge humanitarian and moral degradation and moving towards a primeval society.

            Who is right and who is wrong in this conflict is absolutely impossible to say. I can probably agree that historically Armenians may be not so cruel and are all kind and nice people in all respects. I had an Armenian child friend at school, nobody ever though about nationality that time. But when people from one side are killed and then the people from the other side are killed in response, one can never tell who started first, or whose sole responsibility it was. There is simply no right and no wrong side, the only question can be how to settle this down.

            On the one hand Armenians have lived in Karabakh for centuries, but on the other hand that is Azerbaijan territory and a lot of Azerbaijanis live in the disputable areas as well. Besides Kharabakh, there are a lot of mixed regions where Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Russians and many others used to live together. During the acute ethnical conflicts whatever the minority is, they are undergoing the suppressions, violations of the civil rights and expelling.

            That is not true that Russian army fought at AZ side in Karabakh, not all the truth. First of all that was not Russian but Soviet army from all republics of the former USSR. When USSR weakened in the beginning of 90 and Gorbachev announces some liberalization and revision of the Soviet Union agreement, Karabakh demanded to join Armenian SSR, which was inside USSR, nobody even supposed that the USSR may have collapsed soon….

          • stranger

            …Soviet government decided to keep ‘the territorial integrity of the republics’ as it would be said now. Just the same as USA did towards Crimea now, btw, guess what was USA position towards Karabakh that time?? USA never pursue moral principals which are not beneficial to them in a more material way. Soviet army (or probably special services) tried to suppress the unrest in Karabakh as well as in Baku in Azerbaijan. The conflict started from sharp rhetoric, then beatings, then killings, then turned into the collision of two armies, when the central power was too far, too weak, and didn’t consider that as their first priority.

            Later as the USSR collapsed, when only 3 republics Russia, Ukraine and Belarus decided to split the country w/o asking the other republics, Russia was too busy with destroying own country, to participate in any problems of the post soviet republics. That was the Yeltsin course – ‘take sovereignty as much as you can carry’, even inside Russia. Btw, most of Azerbaijanis voted to keep USSR at the referendum, not sure about Armenians, but believe that was the same, nobody listened to the referendum when the country was just abolished.

            Really in the 21st century it is weird to raise ethnical questions. So that I don’t exclude that Djahangir is just trolling in order to provide a contrast point of view to argue with. That is a known troll tactic, very well demonstrated at the other article at this site. I hope so. So please Djahangir is you are not a troll answer something.

            Anyway that doesn’t look good from the outside, since the both sides are wrong, both should look for an agreement, via European (or Russian if you wish) mediation. Whether i have a moral right to comment that from aside or not.

  4. John Zenwirt

    Armenia should be NATO, as its nation is the one, original place of Western Christianity on earth. The West should go ALL out to defend the nation where-from came all our worship.

    You just draw a red-line, and when the uSSr inevitably crosses it, nuclear weapons must be released against the Russian State, and to be dropped directly on Putin…

    Reply
    • stranger

      Let’s put it in this way.

      Formally Nagorno-Karabakh is Azerbaydzhan’s territory. But it is populated mostly by Armenians who want to be with Armenia and took that region after they had won the war back to 1994. Now Azerbaydzhan is trying to return their territory by force killing many civilians. In this case you are asking Azerbaydzhan to withdraw and NAT0 to defend Armenia.

      Similar situation with Crimea and Donbass which was formally Ukrainian but people there historically are different and don’t want to live with Ukraine. Ukraine is trying to return them by force killing thousands. In this situation you are supporting the territory integrity of Ukraine and is asking to return this territory by any means.

      Both areas Karabakh and Donbass and later Crimea were handed over to other republics by Lenin and Stalin when USSR was born.

      Why do you treat those situations differently. But in both cases you are asking to punish Russia and to deploy NAT0.

      Reply
      • Sam

        Nobody was dying in Ukraine until Russia invaded.

        Russia is responsible, everyone who isn’t Russian knows that.

        They Tartars have a better claim to Crimea than Russia.

        Reply
      • Arthur

        Kharabakh has never been a part of azerbaijan, not before ussr, not during not after. before the ussr, frankly, there was no azerbaijan, during it, it had an independent status, like any other ussr member, but because back than everybody were brothers and there was only one ussr and not seperate countries nobody really cared about it. and after the ussr, NKR (Nagorno-Karabakh Republic) gained independence by referendum, just like azerbaijan, georgia, russia and other states.

        Reply
        • stranger

          Arthur, why there were no animosity (hostility) during soviet times and that all exploded at once when USSR was about to collapse? Is Nagorno Karabakh similar to Georgia/South Osetia and Georgia/Abkhazia cases?

          I know very little about that, the topic of Ukraine/Russia is much closer to me.

          What I’ve quickly read, there was some peace process and European counsel recognized Karabakh as independent, but called Armenia to return some areas adjacent to Karabakh. That’s why I believe it is complicated and each side probable has some own truth.

          I suppose there should be Russian or better European mediation which both sides would listen to and try to agree, otherwise it would be an eternal conflict. NAT0 would not help here, they don’t accept countries with unresolved internal conflicts. Otherwise even though Armenia seems stronger in the military respect right now, in the worst case that would be like Israel and Palestine.

          That is of course my very abstract view from the outside.

          Reply
          • Arthur

            all former ussr states have territorial problems with neighbors (I know almost all of them, but not in details like the one of AM-NKR-AZ, so I will not go into that). the reason is that the ussr was forming when the whole world was in transformation. several huge empires collapsed with dozens of different nations trying to take what they can, however they can (in terms of territory).

            because Lenin wanted to go out of the war as soon as possible, he started to quickly solve all the territorial disputes of the nations and there was no time (or desire) to look deep in the history and make wise choices when drawing the borders on the map. this lead to discontent between neighbor states that was later calmed down by the fact that all nations were actually living largely in peace with one another. the idea of common peace and overall elevation of quality of life united them (a perfect example that general public does not want wars)

            during that time Armenia suffered the Armenian Genocide, leaving no power to fight for its rightful ownership of the territory that Stalin created Azerbaijan on, in order to secure the oil reserves. it was then that he created the country azerbaijan, named the nation azeri (before they were called caucasian tatars, a nomadic tribe migrated from middle asia) and created their alphabet based on latin letters. this is the reason that we say that Coca-Cola is older then azerbaijan.

            However, Armenians could get one thing out of Stalin, they got him to give the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (which is a small part of Great Armenia’s Artsakh province) a status of an autonomous region, which means that it is not being attached to azerbaijan. thats why Armenians say that NKR has never been part of AZ.

            when the ussr collapsed, all those dormant discontent blew up in all the nations. the ussr built the system as it was one state, and those departments could not work one without another. for example, in Yerevan (the capital) there is a light bulb factory, that served all the needs of ussr. this means that no other country would have light bulb production after the collapse. Thats why the collapse was so harsh for the member states. it was one giant machine made of many parts that are useless if not working together. this was true for the army too

            right before the collapse the tension was growing between AM and AZ and there were two tragic events that AM considers as, again, Genocides. in Baku and Sumgait several dozens of Armenians were tortured and killed, their apartments and homes were set on fire. dispite a lot of footage and documents, AZ still denies it ever happened.

            then the war broke out. without having a systematic army two sides collided with anger and hate. AZ wanted to take over NKR and southern parts of AM to have land connection with Nakhijevan (an enclave of AZ between AM and Iran), while AM was trying to defend AM and NKR that was largely populated by Armenians.

            during the war many things happened, both in AM and AZ. one of the most notable one being the overthrowing the AZ president in 1992 (the toughest times of the war). this was possible due to several factors, the most important one being the creation of Khojalu killings. when Armenians were taking the Khojalu town they left a corridor for the peaceful population to escape unharmed towards the interior of AZ. during this the AZ special units organized a quick and bloody killings of those people to prove that Mutalibov (then the president of AZ) can not take control and heidar Aliev (father of Ilham aliev) took the throne. Even though AZ does not save money on publicity and bribing officials to label these events as genocide done by AM, the facts tell a different story. most of such atrocities have been done in a different location (Aghdam) that was at that time controlled by AZ. therefore there is no way for Armenians to rape behead or torture azeris in an azeri controlled city. Also the methods of the killings are similar to those done in Baku, Sumgait and during the 4 day war, like cutting the head of AM soldier or an ear of a resident.

            Even though the turkish army helped their little sister AZ with trained fighters and weapons, AM could eventually liberate not only NKR but also surrounding territories to ensure that NKR will be safe from events like those in Baku and Sumgait.

            for AM this was a war that ended with a heroic victory (there have been confirmed cases of fighting with a hunting gun against a tank and eventually taking over the tank by AM volunteer liberators). the reason of this kind of victory according to war scientists is that AM is a native nation to these mountains and considers these lands as his own and retreat is not an option, they would rather die than run away, while AZ is nomadic, they do not have a feeling of a fatherland, thats why they can retreat and leave tanks behind.

            but for AZ this was a lost battle of a war that is not over. thats why they need to attack frequently in order not to let their people and the world (who frankly does not care about this much) forget that sometime somehow, they will bring back NKR and AZ will live happily ever after.

            while doing that AZ president Aliev jr. builds golden empire out of oil money that he basically steals from its nation. as an oil exporter the level of life of a fellow AZ citizen is not good even among the ussr states. plus, unlike AM, AZ has several national minorities like Lezgins, Talishes, etc., who by the way are also natives, want to live independently from aliev’s dictatorship. with these major threats to the government aliev has to find a way to distract the population and concentrate their attention on something very important like Armenia and Armenians. to do so he uses a tough propaganda machine that is similar to one used in North Korea. (once I sent the link of PanamaPapers about Aliev and it opened as a porn site from an AZ IP address (I promise I did not send him porn 🙂 we had a serious conversation). also he needs this kind of smaller battles to keep its people busy with it. the bad thing about it, is that those clashes have to have a lot of deaths to deepen the image of an AM being an enemy state in the minds of fellow azeris. a full out war can be dangerous for AZ, as we can blow up their oil wells and their statehood will be no more, while AM does not have objects that can pose a real threat to our statehood, they will have to kill each and everyone of us.

            foreign intervention will further deteriorate the situation, because they will impose a solution that none of us will like and the peace will be temporary. but they can help by not selling weapon to aggressors. this goes to Russia (an ally of AM, however bizarre it may sound) and Israel (another nation that survived a Genocide but is playing dirty games with the recognition of the Amrmenian Genocide, which was one of the reasons of Holocaust, thus disrespecting some 6 mln innocent souls)

            another way the great powers can help is to differentiate the two sides. now they are equalizing both AM and AZ, however they are different, have different approaches to the problem and behave differently. AZ puts its cannons in villages, knowing that AM does not usually bomb them, while they bomb our schools killing 12 year old kid. AZ buys attack weapons while Armenia protective weapons. AZ blocks AM for 25 years and declares a persona non grata if someone has been in NKR, while AZ citizens can trave to AM without a visa. so poeple and countries interested in the subject must be fair if they really want it to end.

            To me there are a couple real solutions to this question:
            1. Talishes and others will get stronger and demand a referendum thus weakening the state. in this case the war will be over, the borders would be redrawn and everybody will be happy, except the caucasian tatars that hopefully will live with it or hit the road to find a different place to call home.

            2. these kinds of smaller battles will lead to a full out war that will hopefully end in Armenia’s favour and we will live in peace for another 20 years or so. (the worst case scenario).

            3. these smaller clashes will overtime bankrupt AZ and aliev will be forced to sign a peace treaty with deviding the country into smaller states and give to talishes, lezgins and others. (the most probable one in my opinion)

            Hope you will allocate the time to read it. If you need citations/proofs I can find them, I am writing based on remembering what I have read, watched, asked to historians, scientists, political analysts, etc. of different nations and religions (also some throughout research on Khojalu events and the Armenian Genocide, including London’s, Ottawa’s, Toronto’s, New York’s archives’ available sources.

          • stranger

            Arthur, thank you for the so detailed answer. I’d just suppose those problems started long time before Lenin, from the times of the Russian and Ottomans Empires and even centuries before. I’d just wish to find a compromise solution.

  5. Rose

    I have to say this was the first discussion I read where no Azeri started using profanity with the popular hashtag towards Armenia which was pretty low class if you ask me. Armenians are not spreading hate, nor is the government brainwashing us as we do the analysis ourselves, as this article did. We all are humans, everyone has a mother and is in pain from this war however when civilians are killed, soldiers are beheaded and butchered, now that is taken to whole another level. Peter, Radik or whatever name you chose to appear on this platform, you know the truth better however I understand accepting it takes courage. Fairness and justice has no nationality, sooner or later truth will come out. Peace

    Reply
  6. Sam

    What is this stupid fighting about?

    Grow up and cooperative.

    You are both Russian pawns to make Putin a peacemaker.

    Reply
    • Arthur

      come down sam, its ok, take a deep breath, count to 10, take it easy, everything is going to be fine

      Reply
  7. Mad Dog

    Get it together, get rid of old grievances, figure out a way to placate both sides, get out from under Russian or Turkish influence, build a strong Azeri/Armenian nation. The bloodshed and wast of resources is needless. Both sides need a fresh approach as the everlasting conflict solves nothing at all and the innocent suffer.

    Reply
  8. Ara

    I appreciate and thank you for giving us such a well written article. It shows you have done a lot of leg work to ensure non-biased information has been provided. When can we expect an update on the current situation.

    Reply
  9. stranger

    I can only wish the same, cease fire, end this conflict, even though it has been there for centuries. Aizerbaydzhan should recognize the areas most important for Armenia, probably Karabakh. Armenia should keep all declared liabilities and possibly withdraw from the other Aizerbaydzhanian areas. Find a compromise, but don’t make a war, and don’t turn away from Russia.

    Reply
    • Sam

      This conflict was supposed to be finished, with Russia as promised years ago as the main mediator.

      I guess Russia failed?

      Now Russia restarted the conflict in order to exhert control and “play peacemaker” threatening both sides for submission.

      Reply
      • stranger

        I don’t think Russia has enough influence to any of the sides of the conflict. Russia is not interested in this conflict at all.
        Moreover it is probably the result of the Russia weakening so that Aizerbaydzhan is sure Russia would not answer now or it believes it may also bargain something from Russia in the exchange to cease fire or ally with the west (or probably more with Turkey, they are like relatives to them) against Russia.
        Armenia is offended to Russia for selling weapon to the both sides before, and for not helping them now.
        That would in any way result in distancing of both countries from Russia.
        That reminds me Saakashvily’s offence to South Osettia in 2008, but since that time a lot has changed.
        I wonder why there is so few news in mass media about this conflict now, almost nothing in Russian media, just few in the world.

        Reply
      • stranger

        And I believe Armenia is not always right in this conflict. Armenia won the war in1994 and occupied some Aizeri areas. There was an international Minsk group where the sides made an agreement, which later was not actually implemented. I know little about that. They should find some compromise with the mediation of Russia and European countries. During the Georgian conflict Sarkozy immediately flew to Russia, why now France and Germany are silent??

        Reply
        • Sam

          Russia was in charge of the Minsk group in this historical conflict, and Russia failed.

          Russia took the lead and never resolved anything.

          Now you want the Europeans to help Russia? So Russia can pretend to be a peacekeeper?

          A s Ukrainians know, a Russian agreement in Minsk is only useful for one thing.

          Toilet Paper

          PS:
          This conflict is totally under Russia’s influence, they sell weapons to both sides.

          Russia invaded Georgia, Sarkozy flew to Moscow to tell Putin to stop, or be isolated.

          Why does Russia always invade its neighbors?

          Land grab?

          Russia has enough land that they can’t even manage, and are selling it to the Chinese.

          At least the Chinese can manage to do something productive with the land.

          Reply
        • Arthur

          when talking about the areas “occupied” by Armenians, we need to take 2 things into account.
          1. Azerbaijan started the war. they wanted to take not only karabakh (as they say) but also the whole Armenia to join their great brother turkey and live happily ever after. this plan failed.
          2. during the collapse of the ussr in azerbaijan there were Armenians living and vice versa. and since now we are not brother nations any more, there was an urgent need to transfer both population to their new homelands. the way the two countries did it is whats important. in Baku and Sumgait, azeri special forces organized so called pogroms that were against the Armenians living in their homes. those people were tortured and killed publicly (there are more then enough footage to prove this). the survivors say that talishes and other minorities were guiding the building entrances and the roofs where Armenians lived to protect them from azeris, until they could be safely transported to Yerevan. this is where Khojalu comes into play. to overthrow the president, the special units of azerbaijan organized this events to show that the president has no control and overthrow him so that heidar aliev (the father of the current president ilham aliev) will be the president. lets keep aside all the documents and proofs. what I want you to pay attention is how the killings were done. if you look closely you will see that the way they were murdered is identical to those that have by the azeri soldiers during the 4 day war and during the 1st azeri-Armenian war and those in Baku and Sumgait Pogroms.
          now, in order to live in peace Artsakh needs those territories, or the events of baku and sumgait will repeat resulting in total estruction and ethnic cleansing of Armenians.

          Reply
  10. FatherTime

    I agree these two countries should find a peaceful solution to this conflict. I read that every meeting to resolve it begins with each leader trading insults like children so maybe two new forward thinking leaders are required instead of backward facing antiques. I also hope that Azerbaijan will be punished for its well reported mutilations of dead civilians and soldiers. It is incredible to think that a country that promotes itself as modern holding international events like European Games and Formula 1 can resort to medieval barbarism.

    Reply
    • Kika

      This type of serious accusations need to be backed up by proof. Preferably not from Armenian media, but from a recognized international monitoring/reporting institutions.

      Reply
      • Armen

        Have you heard of ICRC? You should ask them as they have the proof!! You paid Azeri lobbyists can not distort the truth. The citizens of Azerbaijan need to know the truth about their brutal dictator. Armenian people will defend their land and freedom at any cost.

        Reply
        • John Zenwirt

          “Armenian people will defend their land and freedom at any cost.”

          NATO should protect Armenia, the seat of all Western Christianity…the Home of the West’s civilization, in religious terms…Armenia cannot be forgotten by the West…

          Reply

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