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Confirmed : Russian Bomb Remains Recovered from Syrian Red Crescent Aid Convoy Attack

September 22, 2016

By Eliot Higgins

Translations: Русский

Yesterday, Bellingcat published its report on the bombing of the Syrian Red Crescent aid convoy on September 19th. The report examined various aspects of the attack using open source information, including the comparison of what appeared to be the tail section of a OFAB 250-270 bomb that appeared in images from the attack, first published by CIT:

Conflict Intelligence Team comparison of debris found in crater shown in Fig 13 and an OFAB 250-270. Source

Conflict Intelligence Team comparison of debris found in crater and an OFAB 250-270. Source

Since the post was published the Bellingcat team has been in touch with the Syrian Civil Defence unit closest to the attacked site, who recovered and photographed two pieces of debris, including the object featured above.

img-20160922-wa0005 img-20160922-wa0004

In addition, an image showing the location of the debris was published, showing the likely entry point of the munition:

syria-aid-convoy-bomb

Based on this it is possible to make an accurate identification of the munition debris recovered as coming from the tail section of a OFAB 250-270 high explosive fragmentation bomb:

syria-aid-convoy-bomb2-1

OFAB 250-270s are unguided bombs previously documented as being used by both the Syrian and Russian air forces extensively in their bombing campaigns in Syria. These bombs, originating from the weapons factories of the USSR and Russian Federation, are not used by aircraft manufactured by NATO countries, nor are they used by Predator drones.

The identity of the bomb is clear from the above comparison, the only question that remains is whether it was Russian or Syrian aircraft that dropped it on the Syrian Red Crescent aid convoy.

Eliot Higgins

Eliot Higgins is the founder of Bellingcat and the Brown Moses Blog. Eliot focuses on the weapons used in the conflict in Syria, and open source investigation tools and techniques.

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370 Comments

  1. Mad Dog

    As Elliot said in response that these bomb remnants were ‘staged’; “According to them every cluster bomb, barrel bomb, chemical weapon attack, and mass killing was staged by Syrian activists to fool the Western media,” , which is what we see here constantly. These activists must have plenty of bomb remnants around to do that….wonder where that all came from….

    Reply
    • stranger

      Mad Dog, would you comment please the citation of ms. Clinton as the Secretary of State in 2012 that they would be going to prevent any reintegration of Ukraine with Russia, as she said, ‘sovetization’ on the post soviet space, ‘disguised’ as the customs union or a trade union? I believe that is very important, because it may shed some light on all the recent events. How deep was US involved into the creating the preconditions and the immediate support during Maydan? As an American you can help to understand how serious her words were and how they were actually related to the following events and whether that efforts have finally succeeded or failed. You don’t have to answer of course.

      Reply
    • Mad Dog

      Of course, I don’t have to answer as 1. it is not related to this topic and 2. my word has nothing to do with the validity of that statement.

      Perhaps you have more than a statement to prove your point that the US actively and substantially promoted this? We do know that Putin was not averse to using blackmail to get his way. We do know that the people of the Ukraine voted to stay out of any re-sovietization. But maybe you know something no one else does. Maybe you know about all the weapons and money sent to all those civilians demonstrating against a very corrupt government (speaking of which, just look at the wonderful accommodations Medvedev has built for himself! Course he deserves it, since he was so good at bowing to the new Czar). Perhaps you have proof that the snipers were really US agents and not government minions out to do harm to all those dangerous senior citizens. But all of that is off topic….right?

      Reply
      • stranger

        I’ve never been fond of any conspirology, neither i researched this topic, and of course i have never watched the documentaries like ‘the hidden truth behind the world – the rule of the government of reptiloids’. I’m saying only what i can remember up to the moment and the facts are the following:
        – in 2012 Clinton, when she had an official position in the government, stated as above, that they are going to delay or completely prevent the reintegration of Ukraine with Russia. I was shocked to find this citation recently, i didn’t know about that. Though it is not clear how serious her words were. That’s why i asked you.

        – during Maydan, Victoria Nuland, also in the role of a government’s official, stayed in Kiev almost all the time, met the president Yanukovich and strictly pushed him not to apply any force against the protesters. As the result Maydan stayed for 3 months and police just kept the defense around government buildings, bearing insults, thrown stones, being burnt by molotov cocktails and later bullets w/o an order nor a right to respond. There is a video where the policemen just stayed despite of molotov cocktails thrown at them, with just 2 firefighters who were extinguishing one policeman after another as their clothes and hairs got fire, and the policemen just kept staying and had no any right to respond. Try to repeat that in USA and see how soon you get shot by cops. Though several times police tried to disperse the students in the beginning and Yanukovich tried to take laws against protests, that is also true.
        – Victoria Nuland admitted publically that US invested at least $5bil in the ‘development of democracy in Ukraine’ which under the previous president Yuschenko turned mostly into contradicting Ukraine to Russia and all Russian, including the heroisation of the very controversial historical figures.
        – when the bloodshed started at Maydan, that was literally for 2-3 days, US and EU immediately applied sanctions to Yanukovich and all his government. Then Yanukovich left to his party at Donbass and then the parliament expressed him untrust and finally he fled.
        – as Yanukovich fled, Victoria Nuland discussed the candidacy of the new prime minister as if it was not a sovereign country but a colony
        – Barack Obama proudly stated ‘we have brokered the transition of power in Ukraine’ – whatever that meant

        Is not it enough to at least suspect some involvement of US into the attempts to prevent any reintegration of countries at the post soviet space, perhaps in order to weaken this region and create a conflict between Russia, post soviet countries and Europe, somewhat similar to what has been done to the Middle East previously?

        See, no any conspirology above, just publically known facts and justified questions. That’s why you opinion as an American was very interesting on that topic. And you replied just like – ‘try to prove anything if you can’, you are in denial, mate :))

        Reply
        • Paul

          It is nice to see you are trying to understand the Western point of view in the Ukraine situation but I disagree that you are not a conspiracy theorist. The whole Russian narrative around the Ukraine crisis is based on a conspiracy theory.
          The West saw Maidan as what it appeared to be….a demonstration that resulted from a president not keeping a promise that then grew after he tried to use force to stop it…..it continued to grow and became about a lot more than the EU AA. According to the Russian narrative it was a super secret plot by the US to overthrow Yanukovych, by teaming up with the Ukrainian far right to put in a puppet president, get Ukraine to join NATO, and kick the Black Sea fleet out of Sevastopol because the main aim of the US is to bring the bear to its knees.

          Reply
      • stranger

        I don’t know who were those snipers, there are picture and video evidence of snipers at the roof of the hotel ‘Ukraine’ occupied by the opposition. I know that many policemen were shot by sniper and amateur hunter rifle and pistol bullets (just open Wikipedia – casualties) Hardly Yanukovych shot own police or police shot each others just for fun. I believe finally police and special forces (Berkut) asked for weapon because they were getting injured and could not have answered, when about at the same time amateur weapon appeared from protesters, and when the opposition deployed snipers to protect own building. Then a mess started for just 2-3 days and 99% of casualties were for just 2 last days out of 3 months of Maydan. After which Yanukovich fled and police was immediately withdrawn. Berkut refused to give up the weapon not to allow the crowd to tear them apart. Berkut was allowed to move to Crimea, Sevastopol and was met very warmly there.

        There were a lot of good honest ordinary people at Maydan, especially in the beginning. Gradually the groups of well prepared trained people from the Right Sector joined, provocateurs, then the weapon appeared. Were those well organized provocateurs (mostly from western Ukrainian nationalists) and the mystical snipers acting on their own or somebody supported and organized them (see also Syrian ‘mild opposition’ example) – nobody knows. Finally that turned into not so peaceful protest. Some Ukrainians believe snipers were sent by Putin. But at least in the mass media it was reported that Putin joined the western leaders asking Yanukovych not to apply force to the protesters by any means. There was an illusion they could have peacefuul negotiated with the opposition. They even managed to sign an agreement with the opposition (3 leaders which didn’t actually represent Maydan) and Yanukovych had already agreed on all their demands, as the fire started.

        As for ‘sovetization’ – that is an ideological label, cliche, who is to decide whether it was a ‘sovetization’ and to what extent? And why that must necessarily exclude the right of sovereign countries to create a mutually beneficial Customs or Trade Unions based on economical considerations and close history? Lets put the question in the other way – was it all done for the sake of Ukraine or just to prevent the recreation of a strong rival at the post soviet space? The euro-association was very attractive aim because that gave people a dream to aspire to, but what it was going to be in practice, the particular conditions were not very beneficial to Ukraine. See also mr. Rutte recently aka Dutch referendum.

        So it is not me to decide what is right or what is wrong. But hardly you would argue that was a set of tragic mistakes from all the sides. Even though you are tempted to blame personally Putin in everything happened.

        Reply
      • stranger

        On the other hand may be there was no any malicious plot but just natural chaos, several large external parties tried to pull into their side and turn into own favor? Clinton said they very greatly disappointed in Ukraine, not by mistake. Ukraine has been a very difficult partner (see also gas wars) and the union with Russia might have not worked as expected if worked at all. Ukrainians at Maydan didn’t want to fight with Russia for sure, except few western Ukrainian nationalists, even though the euro-association would have hurt the economic of Russia more or at least definitely prevented from any planned customs or trade union. Why Putin should not have defended Russia’s economical and wider interests by trying to pull Ukraine to Russian’s side and even trying to buy Yanukovych by proposing him $16bil loan he urgently needed? Btw the first trench $3 bil was granted, but has never been returned.
        So… complicated… if Ukrainians here may have honestly and essentially argument, that would be very helpful.

        Reply
          • stranger

            Rick, please see above. I asked Ukrainians kindly comment with and honest and essential arguments. Though i quite believe you are from Ukraine based on your manners, your reply is neither honest or related. Thank you!

          • Yuri

            It’s pretty fair that any reply is not related just as your stream is unrelated to the original topic. So my reply is that Russia has been an unreliable partner because its officials have been lying. I ask that the people from countries other than Russia comment on whether Putin is responsible for it.

        • Mad Dog

          Well, you got me with that 5 billion dollar figure. Pretty impressive, but of course a bit of RUPtly propaganda.

          My real problem is you get your information from Russian sources and we keep letting you know that they are not reliable.

          However, your timeline is full of faults and there are so many discrepencies and half truths in what you just posted I cannot take the time to refute them all. However, you just refuse to believe that this was a protest that grew from some 2 to 3000 to upwards of 500,000 as a result of police pressure and government actions. Okay, believe your Russian sources, but the details are far from what you posted here. If anything, the Ukrainian people were the ones showing the most restraint, Sorry for your blindness!

          Reply
          • stranger

            I’ve never said that is a complete truth, but that is also the truth, exactly that other side of the truth omitted by Ukrainian sources and western mass media. Half + half would give you the whole truth, then it is a question of interpretation and further perhaps just old barbarian balance of powers between countries. I have never intentionally lied. I don’t get the information from only Russian resources and don’t watch Russian tv at all. Usually I prefer reading people on Facebook aggregating news, who are not unbiased of course, and looking for original citations of politicians or immediate participants of the events, like Strelkov for example. I cannot be unbiased of course and trying actually to object the common vision here, formed by Ukrainian and western politicians interpretation, exactly with that half of the truth you are always missing. While you btw could clarify how it looks from the US politicians point of view based on their direct speach.

          • stranger

            Also I can prove each and every fact I’m writing about with the links to the videos and interviews with immediate participants of those event. So your referring to the unreliable Russian sources is irrelevant. If you noticed, usually I’m trying to avoid interpretations.

          • stranger

            “but the details are far from what you posted here” that is not true! Please disprove any of the particular details I’ve written about. I give only the facts that I’m sure of.

          • stranger

            “My real problem is you get your information from Russian sources and we keep letting you know that they are not reliable.”
            I believe your real problem is that you are trying to teach us what is actually going on in Russia and Ukraine. We don’t need it, we know better.
            If you could tell us how to interpret the words and actions of your own politicians regarding Ukraine and Russia instead, that would be much more helpful and made much more sense…

          • Mad Dog

            Gad! There is far too much of your stuff that is hinky for me to give you a point by point rebuttal. However, most bullets found in victims were not hunting rifles at all and there were also a number of shotgun shells used, shells developed to stop cars and break into houses, not to control people. There is also credible evidence that the FSB was in town and that units tasked with sniping were directed to kill police as well, (not their brethren of course) so as to elicit a stronger response from them. No evidence of snipers on the building surrounded by the protesters. The list goes on and on, but I do not have the amount of time on my hands that you seem to have. And yes, I discredit (not the same as ignore) most news coming out of Russia for good reason, so ignoring that ‘half’ is just part of reality. If I had given it some credit, I would still be believing a drone filled with dead bodies was used on the direct orders of Obama. Much more fun than the disappearing SU-25.

          • stranger

            Exactly! Snipers killed police and protesters, that can be established by the kinds of wounds. The task of the snipers was to enrage police and enrage people and clash them with each others. That is how revolutions are made, not your peaceful young students protesting against corrupted president and aspiring to free Europe. There are witnesses that the cases similar to rifle cases were seen around hotel ‘Ukraine’ occupied by the opposition. There is the video supposedly from the hotel with snipers who didn’t look like police. There are also videos with hunter riffles and pistols from protester’s side. What FSB are you talking about? Why may FSB have needed to escalate the situation? How snipers can stop a crowd? That is like a pellet for an elephant, can only enrage and drive mad. Maydan has been staying for 3 months, but it was not until the bloodshed started after which at the second or third day it was all over. It started already after the agreement with the 3 opposition leaders had been reached. Immediately after that, the radical nationalists’ organization, the Right Sector, announced the ‘peaceful’ procession to the parliament. That are not ‘news coming from Russia’, that can be found by the videos and official sources from Ukraine. There are also videos with the snipers from the police side. I don’t exclude though that those unidentified snipers just had fun in the all that chaos and didn’t have a malicious plot in mind, but it seems, it was on purpose, and the only purpose would be to escalate, to justify foreign diplomats involvement. So it all happened like that.

          • stranger

            I apologize for the excessive emotionality. If you wish to research more I can give all the videos I referred to. I may be wrong in the interpretation, or the authenticity of the videos, but not in existence of the videos I referred to. What evidences on FSB involvement did you see? That were just fairy tales from Parubiy wanted to excuse the involvement of snipers from the opposition. Nothing, but bare words.

          • stranger

            Several corrections:
            There were snipers fired from both the police and the opposition sides. May be there was no special purpose to enrage and clash or involve the foreign support. May be they were just fighting between each others.
            Yanukovych signed the agreement with the opposition after the bloody 3 days, not before, as i wrote. Yanukovych didn’t actually fled, he was fired by the parliament before, whether legally or not, then fled.
            The uprising included a log of people indeed and the unrests were over all the country, but mostly in the anti russian western areas. Crimea and Donbass mostly didn’t support Maydan. Several arsenals were robbed in the western areas so this weapon appeared at maydan. It is wrong to say that the unidentified snipers along fulfilled the revolution.
            After the first clashes on the 18 of Feb, and first firearms from the protesters, the police started the offence and tried to disperse the people. They started fire on each others using combat weapon, pistols, hunter riffles and sniper riffles.
            Police fired on protesters as well, but a lot of policemen got fire wounds from protesters and from still unidentified snipers as well.
            So of course the snipers didn’t fulfil the revolution, but the violence using the combat weapon did.

          • Yuri

            > Yanukovych didn’t actually fled, he was fired by the parliament before, whether legally or not, then fled.

            Can anyone spot a logical fallacy? Not fled, but fled. (Not A) & A = FALSE. Just saying. Logic rules.

  2. Mad Dog

    Of course, re-sovietization was an old topic by 2012. Russian media was in the spotlight for just this topic in 2008. 23 journalists missing or murdered??? Wow, KGB tactics. Two of thress TV stations owned by the government and the third owned by a pro-government company. Stranger has had over 8 years of this stuff, so you can see why he is a bit sensitive to such claims. Even the topic addressed here is a sure sigh of re-sovietization, doctor evidence and keep telling the same lie over and over again until you have to retract it and them make further outlandish claims, Doctoring of evidence is still rampant. Perhaps stranger can tell us what happened to the rest of Mikhail Delyagins body as all we could see was an empty chair and HIS LEGS! 1984, Orwell was right. Clinton was right…LOL. And here Elliot Higgins was proven right! Bwa ha ha!

    Reply
    • Mad Dog

      Sorry, just can’t go along with your analysis. Perhaps you can link your incriminating videos for us. Of course, we are not really talking about that are we, we are really supposed to discussing the bombing of the convoy by Russian aircraft. This also goes along with the rather blistering attack that is going on right now on Aleppo, much of it with Russian Aircraft. I heard they just hit two more hospitals. This excuse Russia give about Radical rebels is just that, an excuse made up to allow them to keep bombing, despite the fact that they have driven folks there to seek help from the jihadists as the only way to get food and water for their families. Bloody Putin does it again and this convoy bombing was just the start of this battle to destroy any and all opposition to his pet monkey Assad. The accusations here have not been validly discounted, just as the early BC evidence on MH17 has been shown to be much more valid than anything coming out of Russia.

      Reply
      • stranger

        Please tell me which video exactly do you want me to find, and I will give the link. For example the scandal ‘Masks of Revolution’ (i’m sorry, I understand this is a sacred topic for some people):

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdSiD_ruTCY

        Why do you avoid talking about your country, which you must know very well? I’m really curious about US motivation and involvement in the creating preconditions and the support during the Ukrainian uprising/revolution.

        Reply
        • Mad Dog

          Well, because it is silly to try to blame the US for the problems in the Ukraine. We saw the problem festering for a long time and then the regime cracked down on a number of protesters that just grew in response. Russia wants to divert attention from its hand in all of this. and yes, the FSB was there and probably had much more to do with the crackdown than is publicly known now. I still go with my opinion that the snipers were all related to the government in one way or another….no hunting rifles involved at all.
          as for Donbass, well, we discussed this before and although you continue to bring this up, the fact is some (a relatively small) number of civilians got involved in a battle between rebels supplied by Russian (and probably led by Russians with Russian troops there) and the Ukrainian armed forces. Blame Russia for the tragedy. Still, this has nothing to do with Syria outside of the fact that Russia is willing to use indiscriminate bombing on an aide convoy they knew fully well was in the area. Massive bombing! And you want to argue about snipers???

          Reply
          • stranger

            I’d like to propose to watch the Masks of Revolution and Maidan Massacre Master first, and if you wish the Winter on Fire in addition. You would see the pistols and sniper riffles from the protesters, would hear the interview with police staff where they were describing how they got under fire. There are casualties and fire injuries to policemen which you can hardly attribute to the police fire on themselves. Some shot people were medical staff or others whom police had no any reason to target, but quite possibly provocateurs had. You can also see the tracing of presumable positions of snipers and the riffle cases being carried by the opposition. The fact is that some small part of protesters, presumably including those snipers, started to fire on the police. If you watch the videos, you would probably agree with me.

            You are insisting FSB was there – why?? That sound like conspirology. There are no any evidence as far as I know except the rumors. Do you have any videos, pictures or something, or at least what is your source of this information?

            On the other hand Victoria Nuland was there, and she pushed Yanukovich to avoid the violence, which is good of course. US did actively participate in the support of the uprising, applying sanctions to Yanukovich, and the promoting the necessary candidates, the prime minister Yatseniyk, who is now living in US, just after the overthrow.

            Also that mysterious citation of Clinton. Do you know what she meant when she said they would be going to work to prevent the integration of Ukraine with Russia? What particular steps did she mean? Another question why EU put Ukraine before a choice – you are either with Russia or with ‘the rest of the worlds’ (the words of Kerry), but not providing really worth alternative? You are trying to avoid this topic by any means.

            Of course what happened is related to Russian mistakes when dealing with Ukraine, the absence of a good strategy and the ground to mutually beneficial negotiations, making a bet on a wrong candidate perhaps, Ukrainian mistakes to take a counter Russian course despite of large percent of own population appealing to Russia, and also even to some set of intrigues around Russian and Ukrainian governments starting at least from 2004 Orange Revolution, if not from 1991. Those intrigues are even related to the name of the infamous Russian oligarch Boris Beresovskiy, but that is a very dark and unclear story, unknown by the public.

            I’m sure, there would have been no any ‘aggression’ of Russia against Ukraine if it was not for the chaos of the overthrowing of the candidate Russia made a bet on and the breaking of the plans Putin considered crucial. Ukrainians would have just reelected Yanukovich to whoever they wished even ‘pro-western’ and Russia would have never interfered by military. Unless Ukraine wanted to immediately expel the Black Sea fleet and invite NAT0 instead perhaps.

            Nevertheless the euro-association and the following uprising after the Yanukovich’s postponing of it, strongly looks like an attempt not to allow joining Ukraine into the customs union together with existing Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Armenia. So may be Clinton meant this way to prevent the integration or ‘sovetization’? Please agree, that is not a silly question, and US was involved to some or another degree. Why are you trying to avoid and is afraid this topic?

            Syria is a different topic, although hardly there would be Russian involvement in Syria if it was not for Ukraine. I just caught you with this topic on this thread, because you didn’t answer the same question in the other thread about Ukraine.

          • stranger

            I forgot to note, that those are my own questions. You can hardly find anything in Russian media on something like ‘US is guilty for the coup’ or whatever. At least not in a serious media. Don’t think that is Russia trying to distract the attention. That is just me trying to understand what Clinton was talking about and why the ‘Euro-Association’ coincided with the competing Russian Customs Union. And I also wish to compensate your a little bit narrow ideological clichéd view on Russia and I try to pull at least something substantial.

      • stranger

        You could search for the other even more scandal documentary at youtube, “Maidan Massacre Master”. I don’t want to give a direct link, not to insult some people who take it romantically. This movie also shows the direct involvement of Victoria Nuland.

        Your rhetoric becomes to resemble, you know, the rhetoric of old soviet communist orators. I wonder why, I see that you can be thoughtful if you wish. I’m even confused already, in which country there is the freedom of speech and in which you cannot freely say what you think. Are there prohibited topics you may not touch?

        Reply
      • stranger

        While at the other end you may see the sweet-sweet propagandistic movie very widely shown in US and EU and nominated at Venice movie festival telling you how nice and romantic revolutions are:
        “The Winter on Fire”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d1EGjZJFEg
        So one can watch both sides of this story and decide on themselves. So that you would not blame me in prejudice.

        Reply
        • Yuri

          Do you have videos where the little Putin claims that there are no Russian troops in Crimea, and then explains how he sent the little green men there? That would be a good example of Russian government lying.

          Reply
          • stranger

            Formally Russian soldiers were the part of the Black Sea fleet and were deployed in Crimea legally by the agreement with Ukraine. Russia paid the rent and discounts to gas to Ukraine for the fleet. Ukraine many times raised the question to expel the Black Sea fleet, which has been there from Ekaterina times, 1775 or so. It was quite possible that the new government would expel the Russian fleet and replace it with NAT0 ships.
            Though Russia could have legally keep soldiers in Crimea it was not very legal to blockade and capture Ukrainian military bases of course. At each and every video you could see that those soldiers are from Russian army. In contrast to Donbass. In Donbass you cannot find any video with the soldiers like that. So one don’t actually need Putin to tell what is going on.
            And as for the other your statement – Maydan and everything around is more than relevant to the this topic, even indirectly to Syria. I don’t think it is a distraction. I believe distraction is to try to confine our attention to one small picture or even to MoD press conference.

          • Yuri

            Yes, in Donbass you have to look at their passports. Because they were “on vacation” and got “lost”. And brought in some Buks “by accident”. I am thinking Putin is also lost. That may be because he is a loser. But I am not a specialist. IMHO of course.

            Of course this is all a distraction. What is important is that Russian officials lie. All. The. Time. Russia is becoming a pariah state. Syria, Grozny, Beslan, etc are just signs of it. I feel for the Russian people. They should question what idiots like Putin, Lavrov, and such are doing for their future. IMHO of course. I am not a specialist.

          • stranger

            “Russia is becoming a pariah state.”
            Only in fevered wet Ukrainian fantasy.

          • Yuri

            “Russia is becoming a pariah state. ”
            “Only in fevered wet Ukrainian fantasy. ”

            Must have touched a nerve of the little stranger there. Are you trying to hurt my feelings, little debater?

          • stranger

            Yuri, I address it to the haters of Russia. What do they have to do with YOU? Why do YOU take it personally?

  3. ABAIXOADITADURA

    I think that the bomb dispersed his bomblets (remember this is a fragmentation bomb) well above the ground to kill and maim personnel and only the fin part came down through the roof making relatively small damage in the area where the card boxes were stored.

    Reply
    • grouper42

      The OFAB 250-270 is single/1 each “HIGH EXPLOSIVE FRAGMENTATION BOMB” and contains “Zero” bomblets/submunitions. Now, you might want to go back to step 1 and restart your analysis all over again.

      Reply
  4. bolder eagle

    Are you saying that this is a site where High Explosive bomb has detonated on photos? Seriously?

    Reply
  5. Person with a question

    Do the authors believe it is possible that the Syrian government (or its allied) forces carried out this attack in response to the USAF attack on government forces in Deir ez-Zor? Some outlets have claimed that the USAF attack killed upwards of 100 Syrian government soldiers. The USAF attack if you recall occurred just a day or two prior to the air attack on the aid convoy.
    I think we should ask: Why would the regime and its allies take this big of a risk? Doesn’t it seem possible that they did this in retaliation for the attack launched by the USAF on Syrian government soldiers (who were in the midst of a fight with Daesh).

    Reply
    • Vujko

      Why do you have to think in terms of retaliation and vengeance? They could have simply done this to prevent supplies reaching the rebels. It doesn’have to be complicated to be plausible

      Reply
  6. Mad Dog

    because they are mindless minions of Czar Vlad, the Impaler. Just sweep all those folks into the crapper, just like in Grozny. Then they can rebuild it and put a madman in charge, just like Grozny….oh wait, they already have a madman in charge!

    Reply
    • Vujko

      Bravo, Mad Dog! What a brilliant example of well-constructed argument! Who needs facts or logic when one has Czar Vlad? )))

      Reply
        • stranger

          Who would stop the Russian Bear, Chinese Dragon and Persian Tiger?! Bingo! We have a Super Hero who would export a color revolution wherever a dictator should be dethroned!

          Reply
          • Mad Dog

            All dictators should be dethroned. They are bad for everyone’s health.

          • stranger

            Even though such revolts lead to devastation, civil wars and raising of the extremists, all victims are justified by the noble aim. Stalin is crying in tender emotions.
            The problem is when they target dictators and are not shy with any means, that frequently destroys countries in the first turn or drops them back in development by years. Iraq, Libya, Syria, (let’s omit Ukraine), Russia on the collapse of USSR. I’m not saying USSR was good at all. There are always two sides of this coin.

          • Paul

            Why is it that the Russian people do not think citizens of other countries can think for themselves. They seem to find it difficult to believe that the revolution is Syria was started by the Syrian people, that the revolution in Egypt was started by the Egyptian people, that the revolution in Libya was started by the Libyan people, that the revolution in Tunisia was caused by the Tunisian people. That the revolution in Ukraine was caused by the Ukrainian people. To claim that the citizens of all those countries were somehow manipulated by the CIA is not only bizarre it is extremely disrespectful.

          • stranger

            ‘CIA’ is unable to create a revolutionary situation, but it is quite able to interfere and incline it in their favor, provided that certain conditions have ripened, or even help to grow them up. E.g. the ‘free people’ in Libya were supported by cruise missiles from the Mediterranean. Mudzhakhed in Afghanistan were provided with Stingers. ‘Mild opposition’ mixed up with Al Nusra were given TOWs and many other equipment which finally come to the hands of the extremists.
            There are always people in any country who are in the opposition to the current government, and of course depending on the situation, they might be just few or almost a majority. Supporting, growing and directing those people from abroad and gathering them at the right time, right place, with the right weapon, and be ready to always interfere with sanctions or a direct military support w/o UN approval, is the art of the color revolutions.

          • stranger

            And it is not always US. For Syria the external players providing the support for the Syrian minorities are Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, from the other side Iran. For Ukraine, US definitely helped at Maydan and later, but ironically it’s also appeared to be Russia at Crimea and Donbas. Well, may be some people still believe in evil dictators and noble rebels fighting for the freedom, sure, I envy their innocence.

  7. Mad Dog

    You miss the point as stated by Paul. The people in Libya rose up way before cruise missiles and no-fly zones, the people in Syria demonstrated peacefully without CIA or Saudi help but were brutally suppressed, the Mujahedin in Afghanistan were fighting against Soviet aggression and brutality (remember, the Sovs intervened cause their buddies in the Afghan Socialist gov’t were about to be overrun by the Afghan people rising up against that government, no CIA involved. The CIA came in when those same people had no defense against Hinds and Frogfoot and other airborne weapon systems, EuroMaydan has never been shown to be a CIA/US sponsored uprising, but just a movement started by folks totally disgruntled with the corrupt Soviet backed (sic) government. Stop being blinded by Soviet era propaganda stranger. You are sharper than that.

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    • stranger

      Mad Dog “EuroMaydan has never been shown to be a CIA/US sponsored uprising, but just a movement started by folks totally disgruntled with the corrupt Soviet backed (sic) government”
      Not so straightforward. Euromaydan gathered as the response to the postponed Euro-Association, the trade agreement with EU which obliged Ukraine to remove it’s customs tariffs for the European goods and EU to remove the corresponding European fees for Ukrainian goods, but still assumed strict European quotas for agro-produce – almost the only competitive Ukrainian export. The euro-association has been in effect for already 2 years, probably the results can be assessed already. That time it gave the hope to people to become closer to Europe someday, even though the particular conditions were not very beneficial for Ukraine.
      The first negotiations on the euro-association started during the previous ‘pro-western’ president Yushchenko in 2008. Yanukovych supported this idea and constantly promoted in mass media and prepared until at the very last moment, when he was expected to go to Vilnius to sign it, and he went there, but he refused to sign and said it would require more analysis, taking into account also the Russian negative attitude to the association and the promised deterioration of trade with Russia.
      Russia (Putin) was strictly against Ukrainian euro association perhaps for the economical reasons, to avoid the reexport of European goods via Ukraine and to incline Ukraine into own Customs Union, the trading union with a number of other post soviet countries. The same union which Clinton promised to prevent from happening. Btw do you know what particular steps to prevent it did she mean? According to Putin, EU refuted to discuss the Ukrainian association with Russia, even though that would have immediately affect the Russian economy. At the last moment Putin has managed to convince Yanukovych to postpone, Yanukovych didn’t sign it, and that triggered the uprising at Maydan. The Afghani Mustafa Nayem, Ukrainian journalist, now politician, originally from Afghanistan called people to gather for the first time at Maydan.
      Historically Ukraine is divided 50/50 into pro/counter Russia. Yanukovych was more/less pro Russian from the historically appealing to Russia eastern Ukraine. As the result of the uprising mostly the counter Russian half has come into power, which was greatly deteriorated further by the russian involvement into Crimea and the support in Donbass.
      US did support Maydan by openly pushing Yanukovich not to touch people and applying sanctions to his government after the blood shed started, as well as directly participated in the forming of the new Ukrainian government after the overthrowing.
      So not so white and black, so evil guys vs good guys, barbarians against the castle at the hill, as you are trying to present us. Good guys vs bad guys exist only in American comics and Hollywood blockbusters. To the better or to the worse, it seems like an average western citizen doesn’t have an immunity against own propaganda. But most probably they usually just don’t care much.

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    • stranger

      Because the external players are always talking on behalf of the people when it serves their own goals. Revolutions are never made by the majority, but by the most active minority, which doesn’t represent all people and all social groups. The elections is the only way known so far to find a ‘consensus’.
      In the same way most of Crimeans did welcome joining Russia. Do you accept the opinion of those people as the last judgment? No, you don’t. In some cases people from one side are supported, in the other cases people from the other side are, depending on the current political agenda.

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    • stranger

      Btw, right now Saudi Arabia is bombing Yemen which Saudi invaded as the response of the revolution there and the former president of Yemen fled from the country. Don’t you know by chance why US and UN are completely silent and don’t support the noble rebels of Yemen upraised against the dictator and fighting the foreign intervention? Saudi Arabia has always been the best ally of US in the Middle East, together with other prominent and rich countries of the Gulf such as Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain and many others tiny but very rich and widely known for their democracy such as dynasty monarchy and Islamic values. Why always so double standards and complete ignorance in the understanding of the other side?

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    • stranger

      MadDog: “Stop being blinded by Soviet era propaganda”
      The fact is the current day propaganda is much worse than we have ever seen in Soviet times. I have no idea how to call and characterize this propaganda, because don’t understand completely where it is coming from. But it is the fact that we see a huge propagandistic machine turned on around Ukraine first, but especially and much more around Syria. That was very surprising because we were custom to think that the western media are independent and objective and abide to the high principles of journalism. Nothing of that is the case as can be easily seen. The truth has already died in this informational war first.

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  8. stranger

    Because even we assume the mistakes like hospitals bombings or that convoy, which most probably were staged, just because their influence was extremely high – US used the convoy bombing as the single excuse to drop the collaboration together with Russia even though US themselves were unable to implement their part of the agreements particularly to separate the mild opposition from al Nusra and make them all to cease fire, and even bombed the Syrian forces the next day after the cease fire.
    Even if we assume that bombings, there is a great deal of truth at the Russian side. Besides the civilians there is a large group of terrorists from al Nusra (al kaeda) confined in the eastern Aleppo, which is not all the million city, but up to 250k, like a small fraction of the city. They are supported by their colleagues outside of Aleppo using dozens of tanks and dozens of thouthands of armed fighters. The same al kaeda who was responsible for 9/11.
    US should be grateful to Russia for doing the dirty job and fighting those terrorists whom nobody consider as mild. Instead US seems to preserve those terrorists because they are the only force of their probably and their Saudi allies which is able to attack Assad first, and then they would somehow deal with those terrorists next in turn.
    Instead of fighting with Russia, all sides should unite their efforts to defeat the armed thugs who would not drop the weapon and negotiate with the mild ones who are ready to negotiate to stop finally this 5 year civil war with half a million of casualties.
    Instead we see the constant escalation of the conflict between US and Russia up to the rising of the image of a global war from the dark depths of collective unconscious as can be seen by the mass media and social media.
    That is stup1d, there is a great deal of truth on the Russian side even though we can not always justify Russia. The interests to fight terrorism especially those responsible for 9/11 are exactly the same for Russia and ‘the west’. There should be some third side like France perhaps to convince the sides to stop fighting each other’s and unite to finally cease this war.

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  9. stranger

    The only obstacle to unite – with Assad or w/o Assad? Well, Russia is the only side which was legally invited by the Syrian government, they can use Syrian army, probably Iranian and perhaps Iraqi forced, may be allied with Kurds on the ground, because it is impossible to win only in the air. US has nobody but weak mild opposition and semi-Islamic-extremists. US may not legally interfere now. Russia as well may not legally turn against Assad, especially after it has already supported this way.
    Most important probably is to end the war, and keep Syrya a secular state, then it might be bargained probably whether it would be a provisional government or reelections or whatever the matter of negotiations. Probably. With Assad or without, less important already, probably. There is a huge and powerful ISIS as well for the desert after the Assad’s intrigue is resolved, with whom nobody is really fighting for now. Nothing is more stup1d than the cultivation of the conflict between US and Russia now including that propagandistic pressure to Russia and the intimidating rhetoric. Russia is quite able to negotiate and keep their promises.

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